A completely reasonable way to deal with the new wave of open carry morons.....

[Dave70968]

Yep i agree, we are the same group of guys who ask for tolerance and understanding of us being 2A supporters yet we lynch our own who are a little bit more extreme than we are. There is a LOT of hypocritical behavior in this sub forum, the forum in its entirety for that matter, and it is a bit unnerving (not surprising however).

This, times a million. There are an awful lot of people here who seem to think that freedom means "the freedom to do what I would do." You can usually spot them when they call other people "morons," "attention whores," and the like for exercising their rights and liberties.

 

[Dave70968]

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
--Noam Chomsky; while his politics may be horrid, he is an expert on linguistics

 

[Glocktogo]

No, officers need to not make contact unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime. This acting accordingly thing is a 2 way street. You want open carriers to act accordingly and be nice and polite to the officer who is merely doing his job and taking it upon himself to violate someones rights. I only want the officer to act accordingly and leave me alone unless they have reasonable suspicion I have committed a crime or am about to commit a crime. Without that, they can watch me being legal from afar and leave my rights in tact.

I am sick to death of seeing all these posts on OSA (Oklahoma's 2nd Amendment Community) essentially saying, just be nice to the police because they are the police and just doing their jobs even though they are violating your rights. And, I support the 2nd amendment but this open carry thing is dumb and those who will do it are idiots. You either support it in full or you don't. If someone doesn't agree with another persons choice of carry, fine, but that's no reason to call them names and be demeaning about it. Exercising my 2nd amendment right does not get rid of invalidate my 4th amendment rights. Exercising my 2nd amendment rights also does not give an officer an automatic fishing license on me to see if they can find any thing else out about me. If I'm doing nothing illegal, there is no call for contact.

I understand and empathize with your position. So, in an effort to promote the open and free exercise of your newly minted open carry rights, how do you propose to assuage the reasonable fears of your fellow citizens, who also have rights? How would you recommend those who wish to open carry in public manage those contacts they do have with citizens and law enforcement. Do you recommend the model exhibited by MarkedGuardian? Please help us understand this complex issue and how you'll foster the same understanding among the non gun owning public. Thanks!

 

[twoguns?]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...koGoCQ&usg=AFQjCNFCoazxrnNtO6N2bs_yG_tfpcl_vQ This is a repost , but it tells the story

 

[oufan24]

Your kids are playing in the front yard. There is a guy walking around your neighborhood open carrying a firearm. You still want the cops not to stop & make contact with him? I'm for Open Carry, but I'm not for being a douche about it with a video camera. IF I decide to OC & a cop wants to question me, I will do what he asks & get on with my merry way.

 

[hrdware]

And how exactly are they to ascertain that without making contact? You want to TELL the police how to do their job. You want them to give you a pass just because you are you and they should somehow know that you are not a threat to anyone or up to no good.

I, sir, am sick to death of seeing posts EVERYWHERE essentially stating that "I am SO SPECIAL that I should be given a pass to do what I want, where I want, when I want and nobody should EVER QUESTION me because I am SPECIAL and should not be bothered to worry about how I affect those around me."

Good grief, it's not like I've ever said the police are the only folks you need to be "polite" to. All I've ever said is that respect towards others makes it a lot easier to educate and inform. Scare tactics and attempts at bullying never work. They simply cause people to dig in and not consider other possibilities.

Polite makes your day a whole lot easier to get through most times. Being a ********* makes your day a whole lot harder to get through most times. But then, I have no point to prove so I don't need to "cowboy up" as they say ... At least not until the time that someone is NOT polite to ME ...

Unless and until I do something illegal or looks like I might be about to do something illegal, the officer observes my actions. Innocent until proven guilty not guilty until I can convince him otherwise. No, I don't expect a special pass because I'm me and I don't think every officer should know me, I expect a pass because I am not doing anything illegal. It seems a lot of people here think being a law abiding citizen means doing everything an LEO tells you to do just to make their jobs easier, no matter if they have a right to ask you to do it or not. I respect our law enforcement community, but I also expect them to know the laws they are supposed to enforce and know that a particular action would cross that line and not do it.

I have never said I should be allowed to open carry anywhere I want (and I'm not saying you said I did), however I should not be be stopped and questioned by an officer for participating in a legal activity. What would happen if I called the police and said, "PersonX is driving down the street and it is making me nervous. They aren't swerving or speeding, but I'm scared they might try to run me over." Do you think an officer would respond quickly if at all? Would they go stop the vehicle I described and find out why the person was involved in a perfectly legal activity? Would they check to make sure the person had a license? Probably not because the supreme court has ruled against such things, so what makes open carry any different other than the tool being used.

I agree with you about being polite and showing respect towards others. It does make your day a whole lot easier. I believe I am generally polite to everyone I come in contact with and if the average citizen asks me about my open carry I will talk to them about it. If someone starts yelling at me over it, I'll simply turn around and walk away.

 

[hrdware]

I understand and empathize with your position. So, in an effort to promote the open and free exercise of your newly minted open carry rights, how do you propose to assuage the reasonable fears of your fellow citizens, who also have rights? How would you recommend those who wish to open carry in public manage those contacts they do have with citizens and law enforcement. Do you recommend the model exhibited by MarkedGuardian? Please help us understand this complex issue and how you'll foster the same understanding among the non gun owning public. Thanks!

First, by talking to people who question it, politely. If someone starts yelling at me, the conversation will be over and I will find someplace else I need to be. If I'm in a store, I will simply find the manager and explain that the other customer is making it hard for me to shop in their store. A polite conversation should include what the law allows for and doesn't allow for. It should also include the results of the 2006 FBI study on Violent Encounters that found bad guys don't open carry and about 1% actually use a holster. OKOCA has an open empty holster trash cleanup scheduled in September in Tulsa. Community service events help get the word out as well.

As far as law enforcement goes, if I am doing nothing illegal, there should be no contact. However if there is, I will be polite with the officer, I will freely comply with what the law allows them to do, and comply under duress with what the law does not allow them to do. All the while being polite.

I feel dispatch should ask people who make a MWAG call should ask if the gun is in a holster and if the answer is yes, the caller should be told open carry is legal. If dispatch decides to send an officer out, it's up to them, but they should educate the caller on the legality of open carry.

As far as the MarkedGuardian goes it's not really an issue, Oklahoma Open Carry does not provide for long gun open carry. That being said, I still believe officers should know the law as well as open carriers will be required to know the law, and operate within those boundaries. Will I politely tell an officer I believe he is violating the law/my rights, yep. Will I file a complaint if an officer violates the law/my rights, maybe. Will I ask for a supervisor if I think an officer is going to far, in a heartbeat. Respect and courtesy are 2 way streets and if I feel an officer is going beyond the scope of duty under color of law, I will call him on it.

We have come to a point in society when many times we must prove our innocence and good intentions first instead of being innocent until an officer can prove our guilt and bad intentions. This has been allowed to happen for so long, it now seems common practice and those that don't subscribe to that philosophy seem to be labeled as activists, trouble makers, cowboys, idiots....the list goes on.

An officer stopping someone just because they are open carry when they have committed no other crime is like stopping someone for wearing a red shirt....if noting illegal is going on, or looks like it is about to happen then move on.

 

[hrdware]

Your kids are playing in the front yard. There is a guy walking around your neighborhood open carrying a firearm. You still want the cops not to stop & make contact with him? I'm for Open Carry, but I'm not for being a douche about it with a video camera. IF I decide to OC & a cop wants to question me, I will do what he asks & get on with my merry way.

Just because a guy is walking around OC does not instantly make him a threat so why even call? So, no, I would not want the cops to stop and make contact with him. Now if this same person was sneaking up beside every house in the neighborhood and looking into back yards and such, sure I'd call the police, but because of the suspicious activity, not the open carry.

Besides, it would probably just be my neighbor.

 

[aestus]

I have never said I should be allowed to open carry anywhere I want (and I'm not saying you said I did), however I should not be be stopped and questioned by an officer for participating in a legal activity. What would happen if I called the police and said, "PersonX is driving down the street and it is making me nervous. They aren't swerving or speeding, but I'm scared they might try to run me over." Do you think an officer would respond quickly if at all? Would they go stop the vehicle I described and find out why the person was involved in a perfectly legal activity? Would they check to make sure the person had a license? Probably not because the supreme court has ruled against such things, so what makes open carry any different other than the tool being used.

In some parts of town (usually in either the really ghetto / gang prone areas or in the rich, more affluent areas), yes they will stop a car because someone called in about some guy in a car that is driving suspiciously and making them nervous.

And a person calling in isn't going to complain that way, they'll most likely say "A guy is driving slowly down the street and it's making me nervous. I think he might be dangerous." That will be the end of it and all the reason the police would need to investigate.

 

[hrdware]

In some parts of town (usually in either the really ghetto / gang prone areas or in the rich, more affluent areas), yes they will stop a car because someone called in about some guy in a car that is driving suspiciously and making them nervous.

And a person calling in isn't going to complain that way, they'll most likely say "A guy is driving slowly down the street and it's making me nervous. I think he might be dangerous." That will be the end of it and all the reason the police would need to investigate.

Do you have a reliable cite for this?