I Nearly Lost It On FaceBook.

[Shadowrider]

The video that jcizzzle posted is quite disturbing. Here is one that's even more scary.



So what gives a governor authority to just order a city locked down?

 

[TwoForFlinching]

Go home TFF, you're drunk.

What you are talking about above is not even close to what were talking about here.

It's a thought process to put yourself into the shoes of the 5-0 earlier on in the thread. Situational to some officers knocking on doors, arms ready... i.e. The fuzz can't differentiate between good/bad any more than anyone else can. That's why they knock on doors in the ready position. That's pure tactical training. Taken a self defense course? Same spit, different side of the fence, and in this case these sworn officers are catching flak for protecting themselves first while putting themselves in harms way.

 

[RickN]

well, then... what were they looking for?

A cop killing, child killing, innocent killing terrorist that they suspected had a suicide vest and be willing to use it. After the fact knowledge is great but it does not help the cops putting their lives on the line to try and catch him or prevent other deaths.

Lets put it this way, if he had a suicide vest as they thought he might and some civilian had not got very lucky and spotted him without getting killed, do you think he might have possibly gotten to a school, mall, etc and blown himself up along with those around him?

 

[3inSlugger]

The video that jcizzzle posted is quite disturbing. Here is one that's even more scary.



So what gives a governor authority to just order a city locked down?

So. Were these houses left unlocked, thereby giving the suspect easy hiding places?
What if something illicit was discovered?
What if a dog was aggressive and they killed the dog (destruction of property) after a warrantless search?
What if someone refused to be forced out of their home?
What if you had a gun beside you for your own safety when SWAT knocked?
So many questions not being asked?

 

[otis147]

so, a dissident with weapons... k...

 

[3inSlugger]

A cop killing, child killing, innocent killing terrorist that they suspected had a suicide vest and be willing to use it. After the fact knowledge is great but it does not help the cops putting their lives on the line to try and catch him or prevent other deaths.

Lets put it this way, if he had a suicide vest as they thought he might and some civilian had not got very lucky and spotted him without getting killed, do you think he might have possibly gotten to a school, mall, etc and blown himself up along with those around him?

You and the government could come up with any reason to do this every time. You could make up any amout of danger regarding the suspect as you'd need too.You wouldn't have to be right and it wouldn't have to make sense. But it would make these onerous violations "justified" in many eyes. And that's all you'd need to this again and again and again.

 

[Sparky2]

A cop killing, child killing, innocent killing terrorist that they suspected had a suicide vest and be willing to use it. After the fact knowledge is great but it does not help the cops putting their lives on the line to try and catch him or prevent other deaths.

Lets put it this way, if he had a suicide vest as they thought he might and some civilian had not got very lucky and spotted him without getting killed, do you think he might have possibly gotten to a school, mall, etc and blown himself up along with those around him?

And your point would be what exactly? That if there is any possible way a killer or even worse, a terrorist might just maybe be somewhere in a particular area, that all those people in the general vicinity fall under probable cause and therefore the 4th doesn't apply?

Let's sacrifice some liberty for security!...

I'll pass on the security if it means negotiating my rights at muzzles end.

 

[Shadowrider]

So. Were these houses left unlocked, thereby giving the suspect easy hiding places?
What if something illicit was discovered?
What if a dog was aggressive and they killed the dog (destruction of property) after a warrantless search?
What if someone refused to be forced out of their home?
What if you had a gun beside you for your own safety when SWAT knocked?
So many questions not being asked?

All good questions. But if this nutjob happened to be hiding in your neighborhood wouldn't you want them to find him? I know that I would. I also know that if they knocked on my door and ORDERED me out of my house I would have a pretty big problem on my hands. Because in that scenario I would have weapons and ammo all over the place!

I would want to cooperate and really wouldn't have a problem with letting them take a look given this specific scenario, but from the sound of this they didn't really give them any choice. They way this was carried out was just pathetic from what I've seen. It's almost as if the cops at the administrative level in that state doesn't even remember the Constitution. Not really surprising though, it is MA afterall.

 

[RickN]

You folks are really paranoid. Lets put it this way and maybe you will understand. Waco was wrong because while the people there were nutjobs, they were not an immediate threat to anyone. The government coming to your home and searching without a warrant is wrong no matter how out there you guys sound because you are not an immediate threat to anyone except yourselves. Now if you start setting off bombs and shooting people you go from being paranoid to being a threat to innocents, then they can and should search for you.

And no matter how you guys try to spin it, there is a big difference between being a dissident and a terrorist, and his being 19 years old changes nothing. I know some very well trained 19 year olds in the military.

 

[SlammerG_89]

I am guessing no one read what CODE 3 posted.