Racism at OU

[HoLeChit]

As a white male I have been on both sides of the race issue, both being profiled for being white, and profiling people for not being white. Growing up I was raised by my father to dislike anyone not white, and it carried on for a few years. After a lot of self searching and some life experiences have found that it doesn't work for me. The marine corps further reinforced that more accepting mindset, in many ways.

I do not think racism is right or acceptable, however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's about all we are entitled to. I despise all this entitlement bs going around these days. I don't think these kids are in the right, I don't think it is anyway acceptable. But the thing that bothers me is that underneath all of this is a strong undertone of censorship. A lack of freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and voice, and I feel that as an American citizen and a basic human right we shouldn't be persecuted for voicing our opinion, reguardless of how offensive it may be. That is where we take on the responsibility of being respectful, for the sake of decency and keeping all your teeth intact. We should be able to voice our opinions and beliefs, Racial, religious, political, sexual, or otherwise. It is a very slippery slope.

Yes yes I know, this sounds bad, but take it as you will. That's my .02.

 

[soonerwings]

t .

I do not think racism is right or acceptable, however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's about all we are entitled to. I despise all this entitlement bs going around these days. I don't think these kids are in the right, I don't think it is anyway acceptable. But the thing that bothers me is that underneath all of this is a strong undertone of censorship. A lack of freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and voice, and I feel that as an American citizen and a basic human right we shouldn't be persecuted for voicing our opinion, reguardless of how offensive it may be. That is where we take on the responsibility of being respectful, for the sake of decency and keeping all your teeth intact. We should be able to voice our opinions and beliefs, Racial, religious, political, sexual, or otherwise. It is a very slippery slope.

Yes yes I know, this sounds bad, but take it as you will. That's my .02.

I agree that they had the right to free speech, and that they used it to say something offensive. That being said, OU is a PUBLIC school and as such is limited in how it can respond. Sanctioning individual students would smack of censorship (and a violation of free speech rights by the government) while terminating a relationship between the school and SAE as an organization does not.

 

[ronny]

Heard Boren gave them until midnight Tuesday to pack up and leave the premises (frat house).

 

[donner]

I do not think racism is right or acceptable, however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's about all we are entitled to. I despise all this entitlement bs going around these days. I don't think these kids are in the right, I don't think it is anyway acceptable. But the thing that bothers me is that underneath all of this is a strong undertone of censorship. A lack of freedom of speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and voice, and I feel that as an American citizen and a basic human right we shouldn't be persecuted for voicing our opinion, reguardless of how offensive it may be. That is where we take on the responsibility of being respectful, for the sake of decency and keeping all your teeth intact. We should be able to voice our opinions and beliefs, Racial, religious, political, sexual, or otherwise. It is a very slippery slope.

I think you're right that everyone is entitled to an opinion (and i do applaud protecting the foulest of speech), but i do think the university has a duty to address the speech in question. If, as it appears, this was an official SAE function then it stands to reason that the university can address its association with the fraternity (which it appears to have done).

I'm wondering if there will also be some discipline for violating any sort of student code of conduct.

 

[sh00ter]

In my frat in college it was sorta divided...there were the more liberal guys that hated the redneck/racist stuff (but had to tolerate it) and then the meatheads and rich conservatives that were more openly prejudiced (not all of them and it don't come up very much either). It is not illegal to be a racist though...we had blacks over to play basketball but had not signed any at the time to my knowledge. I know later they did but those were seen as sellouts by the all-black fraternities. It goes both ways. The fact there are all-black fraternities and that the black power movement WANTS segregation doesn't help things.

These kids were young, drunk, and dumb asses. If their behavior goes against the rules of their national chapter, then they have to face the consequences; including being kicked out of that fraternity. But if either a black or white student was caught on tape saying something hurtful about another group, I am not for expelling them from school. They have a right to be biased as long as they do not do anything illegal, and there should be no laws against hurting people's feelings. The best thing the black people could do is say y'all are a buncha dumb asses and then move on and ignore these jerks. As long as there is this outrage and over reaction to some idiots saying something mean, it will keep things going because the general public tend to get "racial fatigue".

I once heard a black caller on Rush Limbaugh say that one of their greatest weaknesses was that they get so upset over being made fun of and stuff. And that they even got more upset that white people didn't get their feelings hurt the same way if they say something bad about whites; whites could generally care less. He said that if they were ever able to move on from over reacting and their inferiority complex, then he thought it would correct a lot and that things would get better. Kinda like if you let someone get the best of you then they keep trying to do it, but of you ignore them, then much of the time they give up or move one. I hope someday black people will do this...I think it will prevent racial fatigue and things will get better...Institutionalized bias is and should remain illegal, but personal bias (especially if you have no power over that person/group) is still legal and is just part of living in a free country. Some white person could say all the bad things they wanted to about 0bama or Oprah but they are still millionaires and the white person is probably not...Of course, I just take things case by case and do not support racism and think these boys were idiots but pretty much harmless in the grand scheme of things. They now have to face the consequences of their decision though; hopefully they learn a lesson.

 

[Poke78]

"Real Sooners believe in equal opportunity."

Note: the above lol has nothing to do with the current situation, but a reflection on how and why Sooners got their name....

QFT - they just wanted to be more equal in 1889, before George Orwell even wrote "Animal Farm."

I agree that they had the right to free speech, and that they used it to say something offensive. That being said, OU is a PUBLIC school and as such is limited in how it can respond. Sanctioning individual students would smack of censorship (and a violation of free speech rights by the government) while terminating a relationship between the school and SAE as an organization does not.

OU intends to do just that since some of the students can be identified on the video.

University of Oklahoma President David Boren said the university is reviewing a racist video in an effort to take potential disciplinary action against individual students after banning their fraternity from campus.

 

[IndVet]

The SAE's were our main rival fraternity in my college days. They were right next door to us (Delta Sigma Phi, Arizona State U). I didn't like them very much, but I can truthfully say this kind of thing wasn't part of the frat we were next to.

Don't get me wrong, the frats songs we were taught were not ballads. Some were disgusting, vile, and filled with foul language. Singing them as loud as you can is part of the territory. I never heard anything like that being taught to the pledges of any fraternity at ASU.

 

[soonerwings]

OU intends to do just that since some of the students can be identified on the video.

University of Oklahoma President David Boren said the university is reviewing a racist video in an effort to take potential disciplinary action against individual students after banning their fraternity from campus.

A quote from the linked article says "We're investigating whether we will be able to take any action against individual students." Investigating is the key word. They aren't taking action yet, they're trying to figure out what kind (if any) sanction they can impose. Again OU is a public institution and as such is more limited by 1A free speech than a private school. If they decide to sanction individual students they'll have to be VERY careful in their approach. That being said, Boren is an OU law grad and he's advised by a whole bunch of really good lawyers. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

 

[Coded-Dude]

This is THE top story on google news right now. In depth view shows almost 1000 articles already on the net....


SAE past "incidents:" http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...nger-unflattering-headlines-article-1.2142806

 

[donner]

A quote from the linked article says "We're investigating whether we will be able to take any action against individual students." Investigating is the key word. They aren't taking action yet, they're trying to figure out what kind (if any) sanction they can impose. Again OU is a public institution and as such is more limited by 1A free speech than a private school. If they decide to sanction individual students they'll have to be VERY careful in their approach. That being said, Boren is an OU law grad and he's advised by a whole bunch of really good lawyers. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

If they can go after them then i bet it will involve some student code of conduct or honor code. Most Universities have them and they typically cover these sorts of incidents (not racism specifically, but things that 1) make the university look bad and 2) 'interfere with the learning environment of other students'). Generally, each student has to sign the agreement to follow this code in order to enroll. It's how Ole Miss has addressed these sorts of incidents in the recent past and gets around some of the first amendment issues.