Teachers And Staff With Guns. Could It Work In Oklahoma?

[rawhide]

When seconds count the armed teachers are on a field trip, or taking a sick day, or at the other end of the school. Although arming teachers, or more specifically allowing teacher that would like to and would like additional training to carry will help it is only part of the answer.

The only number I could find for total handgun permits in Oklahoma was approximate 150k with our population being 3.8mil. So about 5% of people have a permit and I would venture to say that even less carry more than 2 days a week. If you look at the OSBI report for number of permits approved by year it is almost 2 to 1 men versus women. Teaching has generally been a profession of more women than men. If this trend were to hold true in the teaching profession you would have less that 5% of teachers that would even want to get the training, and even fewer that would carry on a daily basis. I realize that this is not scientific at all and could be completely different in reality. Even if teachers that want to carry, are qualified to carry, and carry more than 50% of the time the number is still going to be maybe 5-7 per 100 teachers on the high end.

Right now there are plenty of school districts with their own police departments and armed security. In many of those schools the resource officers as they are called are too busy doing the teachers job of discipline because the teachers dont want to confront the teenage student. Are they really going to want to confront an armed assailant?

Arming teachers has the possibility to help, however it is not the silver bullet to solve the problem.

How many would plenty be? How many schools have you been in?

In many of those schools the resource officers as they are called are too busy doing the Parents job of discipline because the teachers is too afraidt to confront the teenage student.

Fixed that one for you. And using that as reasoning that a teacher would want to confront an armed assailant? Tell me who wants to confront an armed assailant? NEVER underestimate what a teacher can and will do for students.

Silver bullet? No one is saying allowing responsible adults to be able to defend themselves and the children they are in charge of is THE answer but it is AN answer.

 

[ignerntbend]

Fortunately I don't have children. .

No Shi+

 

[jakerz]

Well, I have an issue with the .gov and my anger is well placed. I have not contributed to the spawn, and I sure as hell don't know why I'm paying to educate other people's kids. It becomes even more painful when I have to deal with the product of government education on a daily basis. I often believe I involuntarily paid for someone else's stupid.

And you think the product of human beings without our education system would be better? If the gov stopped taxing people for education, you would barely notice the difference in your check. However, the outcome of no public schools would be more than you or I could tolerate.

Let's play out the scenario. Instead of using taxes to pay for school, they all become private schools. Now it's up to the parent to pay for their own child's education. However, the extra $20 they are saving on their taxes doesn't help cover the $750 they are having to pay each month for private school tuition. Now their kid doesn't get to go to school, and because there is no public school system, there is no law saying they have to go. Now you get to experience what a society is like without any education. You think it's bad now? HA!

You would have a huge percentage of the population be illiterate and unemployed because they can't read, write or do math. Because of this they can't get a job to make a living, and they resort to other means. Illegal means that you put you and the ones you love in possible danger. That sounds like a great idea.

 

[Old Fart]

How about this. All you guys go up to the capital and march everyday until the goobers put an armed police officer in every building that serves as a school. Not every school, but every building as they are often spread out quite a bit. As in 15-20 minutes apart. Multiply that first by the number of school districts there are and then probably double that for an average to work with. Now multiply that by let's just say $35K per officer as a round number.
Want to ***** about cost. There's your alternative.

I'm not saying arming teachers is the answer, although it seems like the best option so far, but something needs to be done before tragedy strikes in our backyard.

 

[rawhide]

How about this. All you guys go up to the capital and march everyday until the goobers put an armed police officer in every building that serves as a school. Not every school, but every building as they are often spread out quite a bit. As in 15-20 minutes apart. Multiply that first by the number of school districts there are and then probably double that for an average to work with. Now multiply that by let's just say $35K per officer as a round number.
Want to ***** about cost. There's your alternative.

I'm not saying arming teachers is the answer, although it seems like the best option so far, but something needs to be done before tragedy strikes in our backyard.

And for sake of the discussion...the states that do allow teachers to be armed (their choice or school designated) their has not been a single negative incident that I am aware of or can find.

Also, arming teachers like the school in TX, or like private schools in OK, where who is armed is confidential, serves as an excellent deterrent.

 

[WTJ]

And you think the product of human beings without our education system would be better? If the gov stopped taxing people for education, you would barely notice the difference in your check. However, the outcome of no public schools would be more than you or I could tolerate.

Let's play out the scenario. Instead of using taxes to pay for school, they all become private schools. Now it's up to the parent to pay for their own child's education. However, the extra $20 they are saving on their taxes doesn't help cover the $750 they are having to pay each month for private school tuition. Now their kid doesn't get to go to school, and because there is no public school system, there is no law saying they have to go. Now you get to experience what a society is like without any education. You think it's bad now? HA!

You would have a huge percentage of the population be illiterate and unemployed because they can't read, write or do math. Because of this they can't get a job to make a living, and they resort to other means. Illegal means that you put you and the ones you love in possible danger. That sounds like a great idea.

Sonds exactly like what we have now. I did notice that the fact that I am paying for other people's benefits was completely ignored in your response.

By the way, I could tolerate it just fine.

 

[jakerz]

Sonds exactly like what we have now. I did notice that the fact that I am paying for other people's benefits was completely ignored in your response.

By the way, I could tolerate it just fine.

It's what we have now? Are you kidding me? You're paying for your own benefit. To allow for a somewhat functional society that you will be living in. Since you feel this is a problem, you paying for children's education, what would you propose to "fix" it?

 

[WTJ]

It's what we have now? Are you kidding me? You're paying for your own benefit. To allow for a somewhat functional society that you will be living in. Since you feel this is a problem, you paying for children's education, what would you propose to "fix" it?

No, unfortunately, I'm not kidding at all. I also disagree that it's for my own benefit. The lack of useable reading and comprehension skills present in your average public school releasee actually makes my job much more difficult, as failing to follow written directions in my career field carries the risk of civil and criminal penalties. We could also kill a bunch of people too. Feel free to explain how this failure to educate is actually a benefit.

While it pains me deeply, there ain't no ribbons for everyone outside the indoctrination camp fence.

Become as indignant as you wish. I don't propose to "fix" anything. As I have no participants I neither require a fix nor should I pay for the issue of others to participate. I grew weary of the 'societal contract' discussion long ago. It's just an excuse to extort money for someone else's agenda. I have no issue paying taxes for those things that are Constitutionally mandated. Didn't see public education on that list. Having offspring is a personal choice, and people should take responsibility for their personal choices, to include their education.

My apologies for having gored your ox, but I am weary of having 50 percent of my income extorted "for the" poor, sick, lame, lazy, children, or the demographic and socially correct flavor of the day. It's "for the good of society' holds zero incentive for me, particularly given the accelerating decay prevalent today. I shall call that good money after bad.

Horace Mann and his Prussian model has been an abject failure from an educational standpoint, and it is time for it to go. I guess the 'fix' you requested could start there.

Feel free to call me when society starts to hold the producers in the same regard as the consumers. I would also accept a consistent group of 12th grade graduates that could consistently function at an 8th grade level.

 

[jakerz]

No, unfortunately, I'm not kidding at all. I also disagree that it's for my own benefit. The lack of useable reading and comprehension skills present in your average public school releasee actually makes my job much more difficult, as failing to follow written directions in my career field carries the risk of civil and criminal penalties. We could also kill a bunch of people too. Feel free to explain how this failure to educate is actually a benefit.

While it pains me deeply, there ain't no ribbons for everyone outside the indoctrination camp fence.

Become as indignant as you wish. I don't propose to "fix" anything. As I have no participants I neither require a fix nor should I pay for the issue of others to participate. I grew weary of the 'societal contract' discussion long ago. It's just an excuse to extort money for someone else's agenda. I have no issue paying taxes for those things that are Constitutionally mandated. Didn't see public education on that list. Having offspring is a personal choice, and people should take responsibility for their personal choices, to include their education.

My apologies for having gored your ox, but I am weary of having 50 percent of my income extorted "for the" poor, sick, lame, lazy, children, or the demographic and socially correct flavor of the day. It's "for the good of society' holds zero incentive for me, particularly given the accelerating decay prevalent today. I shall call that good money after bad.

Horace Mann and his Prussian model has been an abject failure from an educational standpoint, and it is time for it to go. I guess the 'fix' you requested could start there.

Feel free to call me when society starts to hold the producers in the same regard as the consumers. I would also accept a consistent group of 12th grade graduates that could consistently function at an 8th grade level.

I agree that we are overtaxed and that there is a lot of waste in government. However, I don't feel that taxes spent on education are a waste. I would love to see my tax dollars go more towards education then where it is currently wasted.

I don't have children myself, but I sill think education is very important and that everyone should be allowed to learn the basics. We obviously don't agree on this, so I digress. I thank you for your contribution to our children's future, even if it is forced.

 

[WTJ]

I agree that we are overtaxed and that there is a lot of waste in government. However, I don't feel that taxes spent on education are a waste. I would love to see my tax dollars go more towards education then where it is currently wasted.

I don't have children myself, but I sill think education is very important and that everyone should be allowed to learn the basics. We obviously don't agree on this, so I digress. I thank you for your contribution to our children's future, even if it is forced.

Ok, so now we have some middle ground. I concur with THIS statement if that were actually occurring. Many of the people leaving the system do not have a basic skills education. It seems that time spent on reading, writing, mathematics, science, and history takes a back seat to the importance of 'socialization'. Many of the "administrators" are the problem, and are likely unnecessary.

I think this is another case of a service that would be MUCH more effective if the .gov wasn't involved. As long as it is paid for by threat of force it will just get worse.

You are welcome. Well we may not completely agree, it was informative.