Teachers And Staff With Guns. Could It Work In Oklahoma?

[dutchwrangler]

You're right. Who wouldn't want a group like Blackwater defending our freedom?

You seem to overlook the basic building block of a free society... an armed populace. A standing army or a hired army require theft of private property (our paychecks) to be sustained. How difficult is it for socialists to understand this basic fact?

 

[jakerz]

You seem to overlook the basic building block of a free society... an armed populace. A standing army or a hired army require theft of private property (our paychecks) to be sustained. How difficult is it for socialists to understand this basic fact?

Can you afford a tank? Fighter jet? Nuclear missile? Etc? And operate it to protect you and the populace? If you had it your way, we would be speaking another language right now, because another country would come in and annihilate us. I'm sure that's what our founding fathers envisioned. You want your cake and eat it too.

Again, we are way off subject here. We can continue this through PM's if you wish. There is no need to continue this debate in this thread. It's not fair to the OP and other forum members.

 

[Werewolf]

Can you afford a tank? Fighter jet? Nuclear missile? Etc? And operate it to protect you and the populace? If you had it your way, we would be speaking another language right now, because another country would come in and annihilate us. I'm sure that's what our founding fathers envisioned. You want your cake and eat it too.

Again, we are way off subject here. We can continue this through PM's if you wish. There is no need to continue this debate in this thread. It's not fair to the OP and other forum members.

Nope.
But private enterprise could. You pay 'em they protect you. A community bans together and voluntarily collects a monthly fee. Choose not to pay and if the community is invaded you get booted out. Don't think this works. there are subscription fire departments, pay as you go trash pick up, subscription security services. Even mercenaries - imagine that!

And while we're on the subject you mentioned the high cost of private schools. That cost is high because the theft of wealth from private and productive citizens creates an artificial low price - ZERO. it isn't zero of course because the Government had to steal money from us to pay the teachers, build the schools etc. Eliminate that and private enterprise proven over and over and over to be more efficient than government and thru competition will get the price down to what people can afford. Can't afford it? Charities will step in. they've been doing it for a very long time.

Capitalism works. The USA had the strongest economy in the world while we had free enterprise and then FDR came along and started the socialist ball rolling and human nature being what it is the lazy now had a choice. Guess what choice they made. Hint - 47% of the US population is now on the dole.

And guess who is feeding the bums? Productive responsible people.

Margaret Thatcher said it best. Socialism works just fine right up to the point when you run out of OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY!

We're getting real close to running out of other people's money.

 

[dutchwrangler]

Can you afford a tank? Fighter jet? Nuclear missile? Etc? And operate it to protect you and the populace? If you had it your way, we would be speaking another language right now, because another country would come in and annihilate us. I'm sure that's what our founding fathers envisioned. You want your cake and eat it too.

Again, we are way off subject here. We can continue this through PM's if you wish. There is no need to continue this debate in this thread. It's not fair to the OP and other forum members.

So why do you even bother to own small arms? Other than giving yourself an edge over a petty criminal attempting to invade your castle, you're no match for a larger police or military force intent on busting down your door to disarm and enslave you. Just look at the situation developing in Connecticut with the ban on "assault" weapons. I see no victory for those arms owners and short of making the decision to move out of that socialist cesspool, those folks are going to be in a boatload of hurt if state government forces decide to act and enforce their ban.

It always comes down to property rights, which is the building block of freedom. The fact is that many on this forum condone the theft of money (property) from others each payday to support their pet interests using the threat of force at the end of a gun barrel held by government employee. It doesn't matter if that government employee is a cop, fireman, teacher, dog catcher or politician, all derive their paychecks from money stolen with the coercive threat of force. Theft is immoral. There is absolutely no debating this no matter what rationale is employed. "Thou shall not steal" comes down from the Creator. No person and no government is above the Creator and those laws. Yet many continue to ignore that law and implement their law in it's place. So... every government employee is a thief. Sadly only a handful of folks on this forum seem to understand this fact. The rest continue to support government, no matter how large or small, in wholesale theft of property to be redistributed to others. That is socialism. And it's adherents are socialists, no matter how many firearms they have in a gun safe.

 

[jakerz]

So why do you even bother to own small arms? Other than giving yourself an edge over a petty criminal attempting to invade your castle, you're no match for a larger police or military force intent on busting down your door to disarm and enslave you. Just look at the situation developing in Connecticut with the ban on "assault" weapons. I see no victory for those arms owners and short of making the decision to move out of that socialist cesspool, those folks are going to be in a boatload of hurt if state government forces decide to act and enforce their ban.

It always comes down to property rights, which is the building block of freedom. The fact is that many on this forum condone the theft of money (property) from others each payday to support their pet interests using the threat of force at the end of a gun barrel held by government employee. It doesn't matter if that government employee is a cop, fireman, teacher, dog catcher or politician, all derive their paychecks from money stolen with the coercive threat of force. Theft is immoral. There is absolutely no debating this no matter what rationale is employed. "Thou shall not steal" comes down from the Creator. No person and no government is above the Creator and those laws. Yet many continue to ignore that law and implement their law in it's place. So... every government employee is a thief. Sadly only a handful of folks on this forum seem to understand this fact. The rest continue to support government, no matter how large or small, in wholesale theft of property to be redistributed to others. That is socialism. And it's adherents are socialists, no matter how many firearms they have in a gun safe.

Dutch/Werewolf:

I see where both of you are coming from. I believe I am in somewhat of an agreeance with you, or maybe not. While I don't mind giving up some of my pay every 2 weeks, I would rather see a return on my investment. I don't feel it is my responsibility to pay for others to stay home and do nothing. I do, however, feel good about giving my money to those in real need or towards protecting the ones I love.

It seems that y'all would rather have a choice in what your money is spent on or whether to pay for anything at all. I get it. I just don't see how that system would function properly today. Does that mean the system we have today is perfect, or even remotely okay? No. I don't believe cutting out taxes completely is the answer. I don't believe what we currently have is the answer. I can honestly say that I don't know what a good solution is.

I know our country was founded as a Republic and it is far from that today. What we have today is a democracy, borderline socialist government; both destined to fail as history has shown.

 

[Lakenut]

Wow...a thread started to discuss making children safer has turned into a "public schools and everyone in them are ****" bash fest. My kids go to a public elementary school and both are preforming well above grade level. They are actively involved in outside of school activities. They behave well. I guess I need to tell how horribly they are doing. Is the education system we have perfect, heck no. Are private schools perfect? Heck no. But guess what, we live in a world that IS NOT PERFECT.

When some of you all find that perfect country that is better off than ours, please move there and send back reports of how its going.

 

[dutchwrangler]

Dutch/Werewolf:

I see where both of you are coming from. I believe I am in somewhat of an agreeance with you, or maybe not. While I don't mind giving up some of my pay every 2 weeks, I would rather see a return on my investment. I don't feel it is my responsibility to pay for others to stay home and do nothing. I do, however, feel good about giving my money to those in real need or towards protecting the ones I love.

It seems that y'all would rather have a choice in what your money is spent on or whether to pay for anything at all. I get it. I just don't see how that system would function properly today. Does that mean the system we have today is perfect, or even remotely okay? No. I don't believe cutting out taxes completely is the answer. I don't believe what we currently have is the answer. I can honestly say that I don't know what a good solution is.

I know our country was founded as a Republic and it is far from that today. What we have today is a democracy, borderline socialist government; both destined to fail as history has shown.

When my wife came down here from Canada a few years ago she wanted to work for the state government. I told her that if she chose to go that route we'd have a major issue in our relationship. I explained to her my philosophy on this matter in depth. As she is a Christian, I pointed out that if she decided to pursue a government job, she would be an accessory to theft and in violation of the Creator's command of "don't steal". She was torn in her desire for a comfortable, well paying job with all the benefits... or seek employment in the private sector and not be a part of the problem. She chose the private sector. She now has a job that she enjoys and which gives her satisfaction in knowing she isn't just another cog in the machine that enslaves people.

I myself have no problem donating money to those in need. My wife and I have been sponsoring a child in Africa for about six years. We've given to charity, helping out those less fortunate. But in those instances, it was us who decided to help others of our own free will. No coercion or threat of force was employed against us in sharing our property with others. I may be a real *******, but at least I'm a moral *******. I can not condone theft from anybody, no matter poor or rich they may be. It is always wrong to steal.

I have no illusion in changing government. It's too far gone to be changed anytime soon. A person can vote but in reality any vote I cast would be cancelled out by someone who wants socialism even if they don't know what socialism is: redistribution of property. People want free stuff. This is the carrot that leads to the eventual loss of freedom for everyone. It doesn't matter which political party is in control at any given moment, that party will carry on with the status quo and continue to steal property. In the end, the elites seek to enslave and use us as tax livestock. We are given a bit of freedom and think we are free. But the truth is that like milk cows, we are used for the benefit of the elites. As our society degenerates into takers the future looks more bleak with each passing day. There well may come a day where the pendulum swings back towards freedom, but I can guarantee it won't be in our lifetime or the lifetime your children. We can have all the arms and ammo we want... but we are outnumbered by government employees who are takers. The number of government jobs is growing while private sector jobs are shrinking. The parasites eventually will kill the tax livestock they are sucking the life out of in their quest for power and control. Maybe then, freedom will return. I have my doubts. I know I'll be dead and gone by then. It is what it is.

 

[WTJ]

Wow...a thread started to discuss making children safer has turned into a "public schools and everyone in them are ****" bash fest. My kids go to a public elementary school and both are preforming well above grade level. They are actively involved in outside of school activities. They behave well. I guess I need to tell how horribly they are doing. Is the education system we have perfect, heck no. Are private schools perfect? Heck no. But guess what, we live in a world that IS NOT PERFECT.

When some of you all find that perfect country that is better off than ours, please move there and send back reports of how its going.

So why should I pay for it?

There are NO free countries to move to any longer. They ALL steal from their subjects to pay for other people's education.

 

[Lakenut]

Hmmmm....maybe everyone (including the developing nations of the world) has figured out that educated citizens/populations are better than uneducated.

 

[Lakenut]

WTJ....are you the guy that always shows up at Christmas/birthday parties with no gift to GIVE, but always expect to get one?