What additional gun control is coming this week?

[Glocktogo]

They haven't said whether it was a gray area private sale, such as armslist, or procured through black market shenanigans. But would that argument around UBC's be that they won't stop black market availability? So there's no use in punishing lawful citizens?

From what I understand, he was a prohibited person who failed a BGC in 2014 (Holder's watch). He went on to buy his AR from a "builder" engaged in selling completed AR's for profit, but without a FFL license to do so.

It's highly unlikely he was investigated by BATFE or the FBI for a "try and buy" felony, as they only investigated approximately 0.05% of NICS denials between 2008-2015. BATFE only referred 509 cases for prosecution (0.0009%) and DoJ only prosecuted 254 of them over 8 years (0.00045%), or a mere 32 per year. https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf

Now remember that beginning in 2008 and all the way through Obama's presidency, he pretty much became the Gun Salesman of the Century. The number of NICS checks SOARED during that timeframe, yet "try and buy" prosecutions fell by 80%! Let's also not forget that this is the same timeframe when Obama, Holder and Hillary were running all over telling the world that "America was responsible for supplying over 80% of all the guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico", all while Holder's DoJ was overseeing the smuggling of guns from America to Mexico.

To be fair, Team Obama/Holder prioritized OCR cases during that timeframe and once Holder got caught out on Fast & Furious, they pretty much dropped any real efforts to push for more restrictive gun legislation. If we apply Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor (and knowing what I know about USA's and AUSA's), it's a safer bet to say they just didn't pay attention to these issues as opposed to some broader conspiracy. I wish someone would do a deep dive on those 254 cases, because I'd bet most of them involve procuring firearms specifically for criminal activities and included conspiracy charges. Those are the "sexy" cases prosecutors love, as opposed to Joe Schmoe who got popped on a non-violent felony decades ago and thought he was good to get a hunting gun after all those years.

Regardless, the Odessa shooter (and church shooter Dylan Roof) happened on their watch. The entire premise of the Brady Act was to make us "safer" by preventing prohibited persons from obtaining guns. A specific component of that was the authority and mandate to investigate and prosecute those who make the attempt. Criminal penalties for making a false statement (saying they're not prohibited when they are) were put into law. Under no stretch of the imagination can DoJ claim they're actually doing their duty under these laws. Therefore any support they may have for more laws should be dismissed out of hand.

These are perfect examples where we gave them the laws they asked for and they didn't bother to use them. Now they're coming back saying they need more laws and the answer should be a resounding: "No. You're not using the laws we gave you and until you do, there's no benefit to increasing the burden on the citizenry and making your statistics 40% worse than they already are."

We can do the same analysis for proposed Red Flag laws and prove the exact same effect. What is required to prevent more of these attacks (besides the critically important cultural shift) is more proactive policing and utilization of the laws already on the books.

 

[TwoForFlinching]

Whoa... Grey area. There is nothing grey about it. It's legal. Suggesting that it's grey only fuels the opposition.

I agree. Was playing devils advocate, as previously stated. It is gray though. If you sell on armslist, facebook, forums, etc, you typically don't know the person that's buying. Obviously, the answer is to only sell to people you somewhat know, but there's a lack of that.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

I know the answer. If a person is too dangerous to be trusted with a weapon and has not been executed, that person needs to be locked up, or institutionalized, or placed under 100% guardianship. Then, there will be no 'excuse" to place or enforce any infringements on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms which will make it possible for anyone to defend themselves from the violent actions of anyone who has not yet been adjudicated as too dangerous to be out in society.

Knowing the foregoing, it is quite clear what the agenda of those who want to disarm us is. It isn't about "safety". It is about removing the biggest hurdle in the way of subjugation. No other logic fits.

Note that adjudicated violent people who cannot be trusted with arms out in society are already known. Since those people will always acquire what ever weapons they desire through any of many unlawful means, rounding them up and exacting whatever remedy is required to keep them out of society is justified. If your mileage varies, you are part of the problem in my opinion.

Woody

 

[dennishoddy]

From what I understand, he was a prohibited person who failed a BGC in 2014 (Holder's watch). He went on to buy his AR from a "builder" engaged in selling completed AR's for profit, but without a FFL license to do so.

It's highly unlikely he was investigated by BATFE or the FBI for a "try and buy" felony, as they only investigated approximately 0.05% of NICS denials between 2008-2015. BATFE only referred 509 cases for prosecution (0.0009%) and DoJ only prosecuted 254 of them over 8 years (0.00045%), or a mere 32 per year. https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf

Now remember that beginning in 2008 and all the way through Obama's presidency, he pretty much became the Gun Salesman of the Century. The number of NICS checks SOARED during that timeframe, yet "try and buy" prosecutions fell by 80%! Let's also not forget that this is the same timeframe when Obama, Holder and Hillary were running all over telling the world that "America was responsible for supplying over 80% of all the guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico", all while Holder's DoJ was overseeing the smuggling of guns from America to Mexico.

To be fair, Team Obama/Holder prioritized OCR cases during that timeframe and once Holder got caught out on Fast & Furious, they pretty much dropped any real efforts to push for more restrictive gun legislation. If we apply Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor (and knowing what I know about USA's and AUSA's), it's a safer bet to say they just didn't pay attention to these issues as opposed to some broader conspiracy. I wish someone would do a deep dive on those 254 cases, because I'd bet most of them involve procuring firearms specifically for criminal activities and included conspiracy charges. Those are the "sexy" cases prosecutors love, as opposed to Joe Schmoe who got popped on a non-violent felony decades ago and thought he was good to get a hunting gun after all those years.

Regardless, the Odessa shooter (and church shooter Dylan Roof) happened on their watch. The entire premise of the Brady Act was to make us "safer" by preventing prohibited persons from obtaining guns. A specific component of that was the authority and mandate to investigate and prosecute those who make the attempt. Criminal penalties for making a false statement (saying they're not prohibited when they are) were put into law. Under no stretch of the imagination can DoJ claim they're actually doing their duty under these laws. Therefore any support they may have for more laws should be dismissed out of hand.

These are perfect examples where we gave them the laws they asked for and they didn't bother to use them. Now they're coming back saying they need more laws and the answer should be a resounding: "No. You're not using the laws we gave you and until you do, there's no benefit to increasing the burden on the citizenry and making your statistics 40% worse than they already are."

We can do the same analysis for proposed Red Flag laws and prove the exact same effect. What is required to prevent more of these attacks (besides the critically important cultural shift) is more proactive policing and utilization of the laws already on the books.

Let also not forget how soon the left forgets the mass shootings that were not committed with an AR or an AK because those firearms are not the focus of their control initiatives that will lead them to be in control of you and I when they get them banned. The difference in the government of the US vs the governments of almost every other country in the world is that our Constitution says the government will work for us, and we have the means to enforce that if it ever becomes necessary.......
UT Tower shooting - Bolt rifle, revolver, shotgun
Virginia Tech - pistols
Luby's in Tx - pistol
Edmond Post Office - pistol
Ft Hood - Pistol and Revo
Camden- pistol
Waa Mee - pistol
Birmingham - Pistol
Atlanta - pistol
Thousand oaks - pistol
Virginia Beach - pistol
Easter Sunday shooting - pistol
Palm Sunday shooting - pistol
Santa Fe - pistol and shotgun

 

[PJM]

From what I understand, he was a prohibited person who failed a BGC in 2014 (Holder's watch). He went on to buy his AR from a "builder" engaged in selling completed AR's for profit, but without a FFL license to do so.

It's highly unlikely he was investigated by BATFE or the FBI for a "try and buy" felony, as they only investigated approximately 0.05% of NICS denials between 2008-2015. BATFE only referred 509 cases for prosecution (0.0009%) and DoJ only prosecuted 254 of them over 8 years (0.00045%), or a mere 32 per year. https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2016/a1632.pdf

Now remember that beginning in 2008 and all the way through Obama's presidency, he pretty much became the Gun Salesman of the Century. The number of NICS checks SOARED during that timeframe, yet "try and buy" prosecutions fell by 80%! Let's also not forget that this is the same timeframe when Obama, Holder and Hillary were running all over telling the world that "America was responsible for supplying over 80% of all the guns recovered from crime scenes in Mexico", all while Holder's DoJ was overseeing the smuggling of guns from America to Mexico.

To be fair, Team Obama/Holder prioritized OCR cases during that timeframe and once Holder got caught out on Fast & Furious, they pretty much dropped any real efforts to push for more restrictive gun legislation. If we apply Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor (and knowing what I know about USA's and AUSA's), it's a safer bet to say they just didn't pay attention to these issues as opposed to some broader conspiracy. I wish someone would do a deep dive on those 254 cases, because I'd bet most of them involve procuring firearms specifically for criminal activities and included conspiracy charges. Those are the "sexy" cases prosecutors love, as opposed to Joe Schmoe who got popped on a non-violent felony decades ago and thought he was good to get a hunting gun after all those years.

Regardless, the Odessa shooter (and church shooter Dylan Roof) happened on their watch. The entire premise of the Brady Act was to make us "safer" by preventing prohibited persons from obtaining guns. A specific component of that was the authority and mandate to investigate and prosecute those who make the attempt. Criminal penalties for making a false statement (saying they're not prohibited when they are) were put into law. Under no stretch of the imagination can DoJ claim they're actually doing their duty under these laws. Therefore any support they may have for more laws should be dismissed out of hand.

These are perfect examples where we gave them the laws they asked for and they didn't bother to use them. Now they're coming back saying they need more laws and the answer should be a resounding: "No. You're not using the laws we gave you and until you do, there's no benefit to increasing the burden on the citizenry and making your statistics 40% worse than they already are."

We can do the same analysis for proposed Red Flag laws and prove the exact same effect. What is required to prevent more of these attacks (besides the critically important cultural shift) is more proactive policing and utilization of the laws already on the books.

Now remember that beginning in 2008 and all the way through Obama's presidency, he pretty much became the Gun Salesman of the Century.

Actually I think Robert Francis has taken that honor. I don't remember there being any Obummer lowers for AR-15's.

 

[PJM]

Let also not forget how soon the left forgets the mass shootings that were not committed with an AR or an AK because those firearms are not the focus of their control initiatives that will lead them to be in control of you and I when they get them banned. The difference in the government of the US vs the governments of almost every other country in the world is that our Constitution says the government will work for us, and we have the means to enforce that if it ever becomes necessary.......
UT Tower shooting - Bolt rifle, revolver, shotgun
Virginia Tech - pistols
Luby's in Tx - pistol
Edmond Post Office - pistol
Ft Hood - Pistol and Revo
Camden- pistol
Waa Mee - pistol
Birmingham - Pistol
Atlanta - pistol
Thousand oaks - pistol
Virginia Beach - pistol
Easter Sunday shooting - pistol
Palm Sunday shooting - pistol
Santa Fe - pistol and shotgun

You are correct. I can carry 17 rounds per mag with my Glock G45 and one in the chamber. That gives me 52 rounds with standard mags that come with it. Now if I want to insert the 33 rnd mags that go into my AR-9, well then that is a whole 'nother issue. The fact remains that this is not a gun issue it is a heart issue, and until this gov addresses that, this will not stop. The tools may change but the evil will remain.

 

[Poke78]

YThe fact remains that this is not a gun issue it is a heart issue, and until this gov addresses that, this will not stop. The tools may change but the evil will remain.

It seems IIRC the US military participated in a little "hearts and minds" dust-up in SE Asia in the 60s & 70s. Doesn't seem that government is the solution, based on that outcome...

 

[dennishoddy]

Actually I think Robert Francis has taken that honor. I don't remember there being any Obummer lowers for AR-15's.

Because that would have been racist......

 

[AKguy1985]

I'm hoping nothing negative towards us lawful gun owners happens.