God

[farmerbyron]

You mean when you give them the tools to do better, teach them better and then give them the freedom to be their own person and they go out and live a bad lifestyle that causes them pain and problems?

Yes... yes, we can. And we do. All the time.

Can you explain childhood illness? Did the 18 month old do something to deserve cancer that at best requires painful treatments or at worst kills them? Probably the most troubling aspect of the idea of a loving God to me. Not to mention the atrocities that happen to children all over the globe although you can actually blame evil humans for that but it defies logic that an all powerful God lets innocents suffer so horrifically.

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

Absolutely. You know what I believe from other threads, as I do you and others. I respect what others believe even if differs from me. Not respecting where others are at in there beliefs is where the "greater than thou" image comes from that so many associate with Christians.

I completely agree. A lot of religious people encroach on people without religious faith all the time and think nothing of it. We get beaten over the heads with it, yet if we talk truthfully and honestly we're bigots.

 

[SoonerATC]

Why do some people die at 50 and others die at 100? Did the 50 year old deserve to die that young? Those are ridiculous questions. We die when we die because that's God's plan for us. The 18 month old died young because that was God's plan for him. Maybe his birth and death caused his parents to grow closer to their older children, which in turn prevents one of those children from feeling abandoned and going and shooting up their school. There is a reason for everything that happens to us...just because you cant comprehend what that reason is, doesnt mean the reason doesnt exist.

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

Why do some people die at 50 and others die at 100? Did the 50 year old deserve to die that young? Those are ridiculous questions. We die when we die because that's God's plan for us. The 18 month old died young because that was God's plan for him. Maybe his birth and death caused his parents to grow closer to their older children, which in turn prevents one of those children from feeling abandoned and going and shooting up their school. There is a reason for everything that happens to us...just because you cant comprehend what that reason is, doesnt mean the reason doesnt exist.

This doesn't sound rational does it? Sounds like a very bad attempt to bring some sort of reason to something by just saying everything is beyond human comprehension. Yes, it's horrible and beyond belief, but love God or go to hell. Really?

 

[twoguns?]

The way i see it, humans have faith in things that cannot be measured, manipulated, or observed. This means, we can not scientifically study god. Therefore there is no scientific evidence for a god. BUT, there is also no scientific evidence that there is NOT a god.
basically, science can't say there is or isn't a god

So, the most logical answer is actually "we don't know" and that is not based on faith. It is based on the lack of scientific evidence. My point is, the belief that we cannot know there is/isnt a god is not faith based.

hope I'm not coming across as snide or rude, Im trying not to....

But, I do know....Look in the eyes of a child just born

 

[dennishoddy]

I haven't attended a church since the early 70's when politics were introduced by Priests, Pastors, clergy about the war going on at the time.

Didn't feel that's why I was supposed to be there at the time. At that time I felt I was supposed to be there to worship God, not hear diatribes against the government.

I've never lost the thought though, that somebody, somewhere in time had to get the first planet started, be it from a grain of sand or POOF there it is. How the universe developed from that time is anybody's guess.
It had to start from somewhere, so who started it? That's why I still in my mind believe in a higher power.
Who that power is, I don't know. I just believe that there is one.

 

[SoonerATC]

This doesn't sound rational does it? Sounds like a very bad attempt to bring some sort of reason to something by just saying everything is beyond human comprehension. Yes, it's horrible and beyond belief, but love God or go to hell. Really?

Its completely rational and i just gave you one example. There is proof to Gods existance. Just not proof that can be measured in a scientific lab. You can either choose to accept the proof provided, or deny it by saying it isnt valid because some PhD cant duplicate it.

I know an atheist at my job and he believes in science just as devoutly as most religious people do their religion. Science to most atheists is their religion. The difference is that science changes. Scientists used to believe atoms only consisted of electrons and protons...then they discovered neutrons. Scientists used the believe there were only X number of elemts in the periodic table, then someone discovered a new one...and another one after that. Science is completely relative to what you think you know at the time. Religion is constant - at least mine is. What i believe now, is what Catholics believed 200 years ago. For the record, I dont believe Francis is a true Catholic, so dont start in with me about what he's been saying, but thats a discussion for a different day.

This whole thread is meant to instigate religion bashing and i move to close it down. Your original post was disingenuous - you dont want me to convert you. You want to argue because your bored. Close this thread down.

 

[YukonGlocker]

No, these are genuine questions, and are not "religion bashing". Feel free to not participate if you so desire.

 

[HMCS(FMF)Ret.]

Its completely rational and i just gave you one example. There is proof to Gods existance. Just not proof that can be measured in a scientific lab. You can either choose to accept the proof provided, or deny it by saying it isnt valid because some PhD cant duplicate it.

I know an atheist at my job and he believes in science just as devoutly as most religious people do their religion. Science to most atheists is their religion. The difference is that science changes. Scientists used to believe atoms only consisted of electrons and protons...then they discovered neutrons. Scientists used the believe there were only X number of elemts in the periodic table, then someone discovered a new one...and another one after that. Science is completely relative to what you think you know at the time. Religion is constant - at least mine is. What i believe now, is what Catholics believed 200 years ago. For the record, I dont believe Francis is a true Catholic, so dont start in with me about what he's been saying, but thats a discussion for a different day.

This whole thread is meant to instigate religion bashing and i move to close it down. Your original post was disingenuous - you dont want me to convert you. You want to argue because your bored. Close this thread down.

Why are you so completely hateful? I haven't said anything to bash anyone other than to ask honest questions. Are you really that sensitive? If you are, you shouldn't come to this thread. I'm asking real honest questions in an attempt to get real honest responses. You say you're completely rational, but that's not true. You give a completely made-up reason of why an 18 month old should die a horrible death, and somehow it's justifiable to be for the greater good? You don't know that and you have absolutely no basis to even come to that conclusion. You say you have proof of God's existence? Then tell me. You then say you don't think the Pope is Catholic? Really? It sounds like you're sensitive because YOU don't believe what you're saying. That has nothing to do with me. I'm honestly just trying to have a true religious discussion without hate. If you can't do that, then leave the thread.

 

[Okie4570]

Its completely rational and i just gave you one example. There is proof to Gods existance. Just not proof that can be measured in a scientific lab. You can either choose to accept the proof provided, or deny it by saying it isnt valid because some PhD cant duplicate it.

I know an atheist at my job and he believes in science just as devoutly as most religious people do their religion. Science to most atheists is their religion. The difference is that science changes. Scientists used to believe atoms only consisted of electrons and protons...then they discovered neutrons. Scientists used the believe there were only X number of elemts in the periodic table, then someone discovered a new one...and another one after that. Science is completely relative to what you think you know at the time. Religion is constant - at least mine is. What i believe now, is what Catholics believed 200 years ago. For the record, I dont believe Francis is a true Catholic, so dont start in with me about what he's been saying, but thats a discussion for a different day.

This whole thread is meant to instigate religion bashing and i move to close it down. Your original post was disingenuous - you dont want me to convert you. You want to argue because your bored. Close this thread down.

You know men's hearts and convert souls? No religion has been bashed here..........