I don't think I explained my self very well(I do that sometimes) in my previous post, I have nothing against using an AR to hunt with. I don't think the 223 round is the proper round for deer. If you have an AR in a larger caliber have a ball. Again MHO.
You might want to back off of that statement. I have mod 70 22-250's that are one holers, for $500,(off the shelf) and have a Mz that you can cover the group with a nickle at 100 yds..... Not to count the Browning Stainless stalker that is a 1 moa gun...I could go on for awhile.
If you have been following my deer hunting this year you've seen that I use the ar platform in .243 WSSM. Totally custom built gun, but it no more accurate than any of my bolt guns. Just a little faster
You might want to back off of that statement. I have mod 70 22-250's that are one holers, for $500,(off the shelf) and have a Mz that you can cover the group with a nickle at 100 yds..... Not to count the Browning Stainless stalker that is a 1 moa gun...I could go on for awhile.
If you have been following my deer hunting this year you've seen that I use the ar platform in .243 WSSM. Totally custom built gun, but it no more accurate than any of my bolt guns. Just a little faster
Since you quoted it, you might want to read all of what I said in the post (again, that you quoted).
Your Model 70 probably weighs around 8Lbs before you added a scope/rings/base/sling. I'm guessing is somewhere around 10+ Lbs altogether.
I can't speak to the Mz, but you've probably already stopped reading this so it doesn't matter.
I never said an AR was more accurate than a bolt-gun, the question that was posed is why would anyone use an AR to hunt with - and my answer was that weight and mag capacity were a couple of things that go in the ARs favor, where as accuracy isn't really that much better in most bolt-guns that both weigh less than an AR and are under $2000.
You have to compare apples to apples - how much does Ar10 with a 24"+ barrel weigh? 16" varmint gun vs 24" game gun is plain not fair: with logic like that 10/22 with a 50 round drum is by far the best gun out there.
Although I will argue till I am blue in the face that .223 is fine for deer as long as you are a good shot, the AR15 also has other chambers that are more "suitable" for deer hunting. It is not neccessary to think that AR for deer means AR10.
Now, my kills with an AR15(.223) are limited (2), but both times were kill spots, clean kills, with no more distance from shot to drop than my 7mm rem mag. Keep in mind that I am not gonna stretch the legs on my AR like I do my 700. I dont think I would use my "AR223" for anything past 150 yards.
The reason I bring up AR10 is because AR15 was designed for .223. AFAIK there is no bolt action rifle that is specifically designed for .233. Short action is still made with .308 in mind; so even if it is chambered for varmint round, everything is designed to take 308 forces, hence the weight.
P.S. I agree that .223 is ok deer round, it still doesn't change the fact that it is a varmint round designed to take game under 20lb.
P.S. I agree that .223 is ok deer round, it still doesn't change the fact that it is a varmint round designed to take game under 20lb.
First off - if you're suggesting that the .223 round isn't adequate for deer hunting, then that's one argument (and its absolutely wrong based on the number of deer killed by a .223 every year), but if you're suggesting that barrel length has something to do with accuracy, then I would say that a longer barrel is not required to achieve accuracy (this is proven in several tests and studies).
Barrel thick-ness also isn't a huge factor (no need for a varmint barrel, just a high-quality barrel made out of good steel with a well-built chamber, rifling, and crown).
I'm not saying that "my AR is better than your (insert your deer gun here)", but using an AR to deer hunt is hardly trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
Again - I'm only jumping into this argument because some guy posted this:
RE: TOPIC
Hunting is just like sniping - ONE SHOT ONE KILL
AR platform was not designed to be such a weapon.
Besides, I don't think deer gets impressed with flash lights, laser sights or shoulder thing that goes up.
Yes you can hunt with - you can also cut bread with Ka-Bar ....
I guess the question is why would you want to use one, other than "cuz I can"?
Longer barrel is required to achieve muzzle velocity. You take a marginal round and fire it at marginal velocity - no wonder you need 30 round mag. Yes, lots of deer gets taken by .223, but I don't see how it is any different than bringing up 22LR, other than legality.
Let go over the facts:
AR15 derived from M16 - primary purpose: controlled full automatic fire
.223 derived from .222 - primary purpose: punching paper and later varmint hunting
Let go over the facts:
AR15 derived from M16 - primary purpose: controlled full automatic fire
.223 derived from .222 - primary purpose: punching paper and later varmint hunting
Thanks for proving my point - I'm tired of trying to provide actual facts to what was essentially a side-track in a half-way decent post about hunting with an AR where some douche-bag popped off with
None of what you said in the above quote makes any rebuttal to any of the facts I've pointed out to you - so again, you're clearly not reading my posts either, but rather flinging poo at the screen and trying to type random words around the crap smeared all over your monitor.
This makes no sense at all. A longer barrel achieves higher velocity true, but for some strange reason, tons of 175lb insurgents are easily taken with 55-75gr FMJ 5.56 rounds out of a fairly short barrel.
I suppose you'll pop off with some vast amount of military expertise on why the 5.56 round is inadequate for our troops in your defense, but honestly, I don't care since you've proven nothing other than that you can put random words in a post that didn't really ask for your opinion on the matter in the first place.
This is pure genius here. First off, I never said that I need 30rd mags. Second of all - I can't fire the round at any "marginal velocity" simply by using a 16" or 14.5" barrel.
Why not back up what you say with facts other than pure crap as flung from your armchair?
http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html
I'm sure you don't. As a matter of fact, let me check with the person who brought up the .22lr argument in this thread. Oh, its the same poop-chucking monkey that pumped out the steaming pile of knowledge above.
This one makes less sense than most of the other cryptic Lincoln-logs you've left us with. I think just quoting it makes you look bad enough that I don't need to reply.
Oh wait, here's a good rebuttal:
MoDouche said:
How about this as an answer to the genius question made in an attempt at derailing a half-way decent thread:
How about because the guy who gave us these nuggets above thinks its a bad idea - and generally, going in the opposite direction of this kind of verbal diarrhea is always a good idea.
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