You'd think the IRS could tell what you owe...

[Lurker66]

The big picture is that the income tax is an all-around bad deal. It gives govt took much power. Replace it with the Fair Tax - a national sales tax.

Griping to people on this board accomplishes nothing. Asking your representatives to reform the IRS accomplishes nothing. The fix is to eliminate the income tax and replace it with a national sales tax - the Fair Tax

The website is a buncha bolony. Each answer to every question says the "details" are in the plan....cept ya cant find any details.

Fair tax, consumer Tax or whatever ya wanna call it is a sham. Wealthy, Big Business and Corporations can get around this nonsense.

A wealthy family of 5 can afford to consume. A poor family if 5 cant.

 

[Shadowrider]

I'm thinking Rick Perry's post card tax return is looking pretty good right about now. Flat tax, fair tax, just pick one! I'm good with it.

 

[Dale00]

The website is a buncha bolony. Each answer to every question says the "details" are in the plan....cept ya cant find any details.

Fair tax, consumer Tax or whatever ya wanna call it is a sham. Wealthy, Big Business and Corporations can get around this nonsense.

A wealthy family of 5 can afford to consume. A poor family if 5 cant.

A three prong reply. First two points are blarney. Read the website FAQs in detail and make your own judgement.

Your third point reveals your real objection. You think the govt should subsidize poor people and penalize rich people for being rich. By taxing the wealthy more you are discouraging private business from meeting the needs of people though the free enterprise system. By taxing high income earners more and subsidizing the poor you are growing poverty and discouraging achievement. Bad idea.

 

[Lurker66]

A three prong reply. First two points are blarney. Read the website FAQs in detail and make your own judgement.

Your third point reveals your real objection. You think the govt should subsidize poor people and penalize rich people for being rich. By taxing the wealthy more you are discouraging private business from meeting the needs of people though the free enterprise system. By taxing high income earners more and subsidizing the poor you are growing poverty and discouraging achievement. Bad idea.

First thst website reads like Obamacare. It says one thing, like preventing shell companies, but never explains how it prevents it. Just says they are prohibited.

But anyway look at the 3rd objection. Ill make it really simple.
Example....say I make $100,000 a year and you make $50,000. Say our income is the only thing different. All our bills and taxable stuff are equally consumed at exact same rate.

Now we each decide to buy the exact same car. We each have to pay the exact same consumer tax rate. Say 20%. One of us can afford to continue to eat good, the other must tighten his belt. Ill still have a lot of money just in case, you wouldnt. Now apply that to all the extra stuff we need. Cell phone, cable, Christmas presents, dinner out, some new clothes, gas. And guess what? You quit consuming.

My point is this. A wealthy person can afford to pay a consumer tax. Because they can afford to consume extra stuff. The poor and lower middle class wont be able to afford extra stuff. Yet the poor and middle class make up the largest "consumers of goods". The wealthy only makes up a very small portion of "consumers of goods". The poor and middle class kerps the economy rolling. The wealthy dont and the extremely poor dont.

Remember, a consumer of goods starts at birth, we are all consumers. Yet we all dont make the same wage. This flat tax, consumer tax or whatever you call it kills the lower and middle class. And it wrecks the economy.

 

[Dale00]

Now we each decide to buy the exact same car. We each have to pay the exact same consumer tax rate. Say 20%. One of us can afford to continue to eat good, the other must tighten his belt. Ill still have a lot of money just in case, you wouldnt. Now apply that to all the extra stuff we need. Cell phone, cable, Christmas presents, dinner out, some new clothes, gas. And guess what? You quit consuming.

Rich people will live better than poor people. This is reality. The good news is that if the government keeps it's nose out of the economy poor people can improve their lot.

Why should the person who earns $100,000 be forced to give part of it to the person who earns $50,000.

When the government creates an income tax they may promise that they are going to help poor people, but it is a lie. The politicians are creating more power for themselves so they can milk contributions and favors from big companies. A few crumbs go to the poor to buy their votes and in time the political class kills the productive sector of the economy.

My point is this. A wealthy person can afford to pay a consumer tax. Because they can afford to consume extra stuff. The poor and lower middle class wont be able to afford extra stuff. Yet the poor and middle class make up the largest "consumers of goods". The wealthy only makes up a very small portion of "consumers of goods". The poor and middle class kerps the economy rolling. The wealthy dont and the extremely poor dont.

The wealthy do keep the economy growing especially when taxes are low. Lower taxes make it worth the risk of starting new businesses or expanding old ones. which in turn hire more people creating a shortage of labor which increases wages.

Remember, a consumer of goods starts at birth, we are all consumers. Yet we all dont make the same wage. This flat tax, consumer tax or whatever you call it kills the lower and middle class. And it wrecks the economy.

If it were true that this is what causes the economy to flourish then all that we would need to do is give money to poor and middle class people for them to spend and all would be well. I'm afraid your thinking is obviously incorrect. Increased consumption has a short term positive effect on the economy, a shot of gas if you will. But only increased productivity causes long term growth.

The income tax gives more power to politicians corrupting them, and feeds crony capitialism reducing free-market competition. It is an all around bad deal.

 

[dennishoddy]

The website is a buncha bolony. Each answer to every question says the "details" are in the plan....cept ya cant find any details.

Fair tax, consumer Tax or whatever ya wanna call it is a sham. Wealthy, Big Business and Corporations can get around this nonsense.

A wealthy family of 5 can afford to consume. A poor family if 5 cant.

the flat tax is what it is. Everybody pays the same. 10%.

What is wrong with that? My 39% tax base would sure like to pay that.

 

[Lurker66]

Im not arguing that the current income tax is fair or good. Just that the "fair" tax aint.

If you produce it, it has to be bought. To be bought, consumers must have money to "blow". Our economy is flourishing because of our need for excess "stuff". If we only bought what we needed, the economy would crash. And the wealthy would stay wealthy, the midfle will slip lower and the poor, poorer.

You should read "the Culture Industry" by Theodor Adorno. He kinda Explains this whole consumer of goods in a way I cant on a forum. The middle class and poor numbers grow bigger every day at a huge rate. And condume more stuff, While the Rich grows slow and consumes at a slower rate. Thats whats giving us this huge gap between the haves and have nots.

 

[dennishoddy]

So the socialist Theodor Adorno doesn't like it and justify's it in a way you can't understand it.

That makes sense of why you can't explain it.

The flat tax is what it is. A flat tax. Its lower than 99% of Americans pay right now. Its simple. You can fire the IRS, and hire some book keepers.

 

[Rooster1971]

First thst website reads like Obamacare. It says one thing, like preventing shell companies, but never explains how it prevents it. Just says they are prohibited.

But anyway look at the 3rd objection. Ill make it really simple.
Example....say I make $100,000 a year and you make $50,000. Say our income is the only thing different. All our bills and taxable stuff are equally consumed at exact same rate.

Now we each decide to buy the exact same car. We each have to pay the exact same consumer tax rate. Say 20%. One of us can afford to continue to eat good, the other must tighten his belt. Ill still have a lot of money just in case, you wouldnt. Now apply that to all the extra stuff we need. Cell phone, cable, Christmas presents, dinner out, some new clothes, gas. And guess what? You quit consuming.

My point is this. A wealthy person can afford to pay a consumer tax. Because they can afford to consume extra stuff. The poor and lower middle class wont be able to afford extra stuff. Yet the poor and middle class make up the largest "consumers of goods". The wealthy only makes up a very small portion of "consumers of goods". The poor and middle class kerps the economy rolling. The wealthy dont and the extremely poor dont.

Remember, a consumer of goods starts at birth, we are all consumers. Yet we all dont make the same wage. This flat tax, consumer tax or whatever you call it kills the lower and middle class. And it wrecks the economy.

Why do you have to buy the same car and other stuff if you make half as much? Ever heard of living within your means? I've been dirt floor poor and never blamed it on anyone but myself.

 

[Lurker66]

Why do you have to buy the same car and other stuff if you make half as much? Ever heard of living within your means? I've been dirt floor poor and never blamed it on anyone but myself.

Its just an example man. That why I used100grand vs 50grand.