Reliable AR15......

[SMS]

That's my question. What is your requirements for guns to attain the "reliable" status in the SMS mind.

Your question ignores my point that my definition, or your definition, of reliable is different and wholly useless when engaging in internet discussion over which guns are reliable and which aren't. And any definition of reliable is not universal across all "guns". A bolt gun is going to have a different standard than a semi-auto for example.

But, if you really just gotta know: For an AR platform that I planned to bet my life on, if I could take it up close to the sustained rate of fire, keep it there through a full combat load (210 or even 300), recharge and repeat without cleaning for at least two or three cycles (in succession on the same day) and then go out the next day and repeat the process, I might be comfortable with the rifle.

That extreme standard would be significantly lower for a hobby range gun.

 

[peanut]

We are talking about AR's, not sure who brought bolt guns into this.
Wouldn't that tested gun be closer to a failure point at the end of this proving run of 1500-2000 rds? And then if you changed those wear parts, wouldn't you be right back at proving your rifle again?

Your question ignores my point that my definition, or your definition, of reliable is different and wholly useless when engaging in internet discussion over which guns are reliable and which aren't. And any definition of reliable is not universal across all "guns". A bolt gun is going to have a different standard than a semi-auto for example.

But, if you really just gotta know: For an AR platform that I planned to bet my life on, if I could take it up close to the sustained rate of fire, keep it there through a full combat load (210 or even 300), recharge and repeat without cleaning for at least two or three cycles (in succession on the same day) and then go out the next day and repeat the process, I might be comfortable with the rifle.

That extreme standard would be significantly lower for a hobby range gun.

 

[SMS]

We are talking about AR's, not sure who brought bolt guns into this.

I did, when you asked what rate of fire and time standard all guns must pass...bringing bolt guns into this was used as an example to show that there is no one standard for all guns.

But no, a proving run of a couple thousand rounds does not start the process all over again. In fact, many high quality guns are just getting their cherry busted by that point....and entering their most productive phase. LOL.

Enough of the '20 questions for SMS hour', LOL, let's skip to what your standard of reliability is? And what is your anticipated use?

 

[langston302]

oh my god......
one thing that is easily forgotten here. Its mechanical and has moving parts, its containing a controlled explosion and aiming a fast moving projectile. Murphy will always be right there and will show up and give you the shits when you dont want them. I train to use my rifle in a way that stops any threat for whatever reason that is needed in my profession. I like to think of it this way. How fast can I correct a problem that WILL arise and get back into the fight? So in the end, how reliable am I in operating my rifle.

discuss if you wish.

 

[CAR-AR-M16]

There was a guy over on AR15.com who did a torture test on his AR. Here are some pics of his AR after almost 16,000 rounds with no cleaning, just some lube squirted in every 500rds or so. I would say it was reliable.

 

[Glocktogo]

Dude, that's nasty!

 

[SMS]

LOL. Yup, that'll do.

 

[peanut]

I don't have a standard! I shoot my guns harder than the M4 ROF thingy when i sight them in from the bench. With the last 10 or so AR's that I 've had i have found out within the first couple mags if the gun will run. Heck, i shoot my guns harder from the bench than is required at the carbine matches!
When ammo was 100 per k it was quite easy to put several beta mags down range and really run a gun.
You can go on and on but your problems with an AR,AK or FAL will almost always show up within a few hundred rounds.
I'm talking about reliably cycling, not longevity! You can stress any part to failure when operated out of it's capable working ability. Just like they did in The firefight in Iraq. Does that mean those guns weren't reliable? Not really, it means they exceded their operating capability.

I did, when you asked what rate of fire and time standard all guns must pass...bringing bolt guns into this was used as an example to show that there is no one standard for all guns.

But no, a proving run of a couple thousand rounds does not start the process all over again. In fact, many high quality guns are just getting their cherry busted by that point....and entering their most productive phase. LOL.

Enough of the '20 questions for SMS hour', LOL, let's skip to what your standard of reliability is? And what is your anticipated use?

 

[ldp4570]

oh my god......
one thing that is easily forgotten here. Its mechanical and has moving parts, its containing a controlled explosion and aiming a fast moving projectile. Murphy will always be right there and will show up and give you the shits when you dont want them. I train to use my rifle in a way that stops any threat for whatever reason that is needed in my profession. I like to think of it this way. How fast can I correct a problem that WILL arise and get back into the fight? So in the end, how reliable am I in operating my rifle.

discuss if you wish.

This right here^^^^^^!!!!!! I also follow the old axiom of "One in None, Two is One"!!!!! If you don't understand, it means usually if I have my rifle, I also have my sidearm too. Rifle takes a puke, automatice transition. I'm old enough and broke enough now that I'll never have to go visit any more of those lovely places of my past, so the chances of me having to follow that axiom is resigned to me carrying two handguns now, so it still applies, just modified a little. YMMV!!!!!!!!

 

[SMS]

I don't have a standard! I shoot my guns harder than the M4 ROF thingy when i sight them in from the bench.

You sight in at more than 12-15 rounds per minute? I highly doubt your bench shooting is harder than any accepted M4 reliability test.

Thanks for clarifying your standard, or lack thereof and proving my point. If you don't have a standard then how can you profess that you have a $510 reliable gun and "You don't have to drink the koolaid to have a reliable gun"?

Everything you've said indicates you test for functionality, not reliability....those are not the same thing, big difference. BUT, not that big a difference for a range hobby gun.

In all, if it works for you, great. We're going in circles now......