Can we finally admit

[Billybob]

Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17).
And the writer to the Hebrews wrote, “By calling this covenant ‘new,’ he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear” (Hebrews 8:13).

That explanation raises some interesting questions...

Aside from semantics what's the difference between Abolishing something and making it obsolete?
If the old covenant(Torah, Old Testament law) is obsolete does that mean the Ten Commandments are not applicable to Christians?

 

[71buickfreak]

That explanation raises some interesting questions...

Aside from semantics what's the difference between Abolishing something and making it obsolete?
If the old covenant(Torah, Old Testament law) is obsolete does that mean the Ten Commandments are not applicable to Christians?

The short answer? Yup. If you take it all by the letter as we understand it. The 10 commandments are a good guide for basic honest life, but they kind of take the fun out of a lot of things too. Who here has not thought impure thoughts about the hot neighbor? That's a commandment.

As for homosexions, yeah. I bring this up all the time. Bible beaters just can't seem to wrap their heads around it.

 

[gaseous maximus]

To get back to the original question, I fail to realize why anyone would think that the muslims are at war with us, just because they blow our stuff up, kill our citizens, behead our journalists, raid our embassies, murder our ambassador, and trample and burn our flag.

 

[71buickfreak]

My problem with the statement that "we are at war with the muslims" is that no we are not. We are at war with several groups of terrorists who are islamic fundamentalists. Hating all muslims and wanting to get rid of them all together is a little too much Nazi for my tastes. Considering the entire reason we have these issues today are because of Hitler and his hatred of jews. When the state of israel was recreated, all of this hatred was spawned. Sure, muslims didn't care for our western lifestyles and christian ways, but they really didn't give two turds about us either way. Throw a few thousand jews into their holy land, and boom, instant hatred. Thanks nazis, your legacy continues.

 

[Billybob]

The short answer? Yup. If you take it all by the letter as we understand it. The 10 commandments are a good guide for basic honest life, but they kind of take the fun out of a lot of things too. Who here has not thought impure thoughts about the hot neighbor? That's a commandment.

I thought Jesus said to keep the commandments?

Matt.19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[71buickfreak]

Missed that one. Guess I can't look at that "hottest chicks" threads no more. Oh, wait, who am I kidding.

 

[Billybob]

Maybe one can admire but not covet?

KJV Dictionary Definition: covet

1. To desire or wish for, with eagerness; to desire earnestly to obtain or possess; in a good sense.

Covet earnestly the best gifts. 1 Corinthians 12.

2. To desire inordinately; to desire that which it is unlawful to obtain or possess; in a bad sense.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors house, wife or servant. Exodus 20.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/covet.html

 

[11b1776]

If Christians want to practice the commandments in the Old Testament, they should learn from Christ’s wisdom revealed in Matt. 22:24-40. The Pharisees wanted to trap Jesus with words, so one of them, an expert in the law, asked him which commandment was the greatest.

22:37 Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

Jesus boils down all the commandments in the Old Testament to these two. They are the best way to obey all of them. Jesus’ followers should live a life of divine love through the power of the Holy Spirit in Jesus’ name.

Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is in perfect agreement with his Lord and Savior, using the key words "fulfilled" and "fulfillment" (Romans 13:8-10):

13:8 [F]or he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself. 10 Love does no harm to the neighbor. Therefore, love is the fulfillment of the law.

Only the life and love of Jesus Christ that he sends into our hearts through the Holy Spirit can enable us to walk in divine love. Our love for God cannot be self-initiated. God draws us to love him by his Spirit. This is the first great commandment. Only as we love him, we love others. That is the second greatest commandment. As for righteousness coming from keeping the two greatest commandments, only his righteousness that he offers us freely after his death on the cross and resurrection can save us. Our own righteousness cannot.

We must trust in Jesus Christ and receive the Holy Spirit and his righteousness in his name.

We Christians honor and revere the Old Testament, but we interpret it through Jesus Christ and the new era of salvation and fulfillment that he ushered in on the day he was born.

 

[Billybob]

If Christians want to practice the commandments in the Old Testament, they should learn from Christ’s wisdom revealed in Matt. 22:24-40. The Pharisees wanted to trap Jesus with words, so one of them, an expert in the law, asked him which commandment was the greatest.

22:37 Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

So he received his wisdom from and preached adherence to Old Testament scripture/Law?

Deuteronomy 6:4-5

4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18

Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself: I am the LORD.

 

[Dale00]

To return to the original question - No, "the Muslims" are not attacking us.

Don't let anyone try to persuade you that all Muslims are responsible for these actions. That's like saying that all Catholics are responsible for the actions of the Provisional Irish Republican Army and its splinter-group terrorist successors, or that all Protestants are responsible for the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church, or all fringe sects are responsible for the actions of Aum Shinrikyo. There are good and bad Muslims, just as there are good and bad Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, or what have you.

That said, it's true that Islam has produced more than its share of fundamentalists and their sympathizers. Why? Because some Islamic nations have typically never invested much time, energy or resources in secular education systems. They've relied on the mosques and imams and madrassas to educate their citizens - and the imams have taken full advantage to entrench their position in and influence over Islamic society....

...The result of that neglect you see before you today, in the ignorance, bigotry, zealotry and fanaticism demonstrated by the mobs that stormed our embassies. Those who planned and led those demonstrations knew precisely how to whip up and manipulate those elements to achieve their objectives.


3. President Obama, through his foreign policy vacillations, has brought this upon America.

I lay the blame for these events firmly at President Obama's feet. He's pandered to Islam, pulled our forces out of Iraq, is busy pulling them out of Afghanistan, and has not taken a hard line with those nations such as Iran, Pakistan, etc. who are trying to push us around. As a result, radical Islamists have lost all respect for him.

From a Christian perspective, Luke 11:21-22 puts it very well. "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils." President Obama has been neither a strong man nor fully armed, and has not guarded his palace (to whit, our nation). Does anyone really believe those behind these embassy attacks would have dared to launch them three and a half years into the presidency of Ronald Reagan? No? Then I rest my case.


Victor Davis Hanson sums it up admirably.

Expect more violence. The Libyan murderers are now empowered, and, like the infamous Iranian hostage-takers, feel their government either supports them or can’t stop them. The crowd in Egypt knew what it was doing when it chanted Obama’s name juxtaposed to Osama’s.

Obama’s effort to appease Islam is an utter failure, as we see in various polls that show no change in anti-American attitudes in the Middle East.

. . .

At some point, someone in the administration is going to fathom that the more one seeks to appease radical Islam, the more the latter despises the appeaser.

These terrible attacks on the anniversary of 9/11 are extremely significant. They come right at a time when we are considering an aggregate $1 trillion cutback in defense over the next decade. They should give make us cautious about proposed intervention in Syria. They leave our Arab Spring policy in tatters, and the whole “reset” approach to the Middle East incoherent. They embarrass any who continue to contextualize radical Islamic violence. The juxtaposed chants of “Osama” and “Obama” in Egypt make a mockery of the recent “We killed Osama” spiking the football at the Democratic convention. And they remind us why 2012 is sadly looking a lot like 1980 - when in a similar election year, in a similarly minded administration, the proverbial chickens of four years of “smart” diplomacy tragically came home to roost.


There's more at the link.

http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/