HB2522: Open Carry

[Dale00]

The thread is not about the logic of open carry it is about our right to open carry and efforts underway to restore that right.

 

[Werewolf]

The issue is you take your options off the table when you go from concealed carry to open. You present yourself as an unqualified deterrent.

That horse has been beaten to death in multiple threads over multiple years here at OSA.

On the one hand is the very efficacious argument that thugs are predators and by nature, be they human or animal, predators prey on the weak not the strong or even those with the appearance of strength.

On the other hand is the also efficacious argument that by carrying open you give up the element of surprise and it is a generally accepted principle that surprise has a combat multiplier of 3.

there are other less persuasive arguments no less valid.

When push comes to shove all the strategic and tactical arguments are irrelevant when it comes to rights. OC or not - it should be an individual choice not a choice made by government.

 

[oklacowboy]

When push comes to shove all the strategic and tactical arguments are irrelevant when it comes to rights. OC or not - it should be an individual choice not a choice made by government.

That sums it up pretty good. Also 43 other states have some fourm of open carry with no problems. Why is it some people think Oklahoma can't handle it?

 

[Col. Ludlow]

That horse has been beaten to death in multiple threads over multiple years here at OSA.

On the one hand is the very efficacious argument that thugs are predators and by nature, be they human or animal, predators prey on the weak not the strong or even those with the appearance of strength.

On the other hand is the also efficacious argument that by carrying open you give up the element of surprise and it is a generally accepted principle that surprise has a combat multiplier of 3.

there are other less persuasive arguments no less valid.

When push comes to shove all the strategic and tactical arguments are irrelevant when it comes to rights. OC or not - it should be an individual choice not a choice made by government.

As a new member, I thank you for the cliff notes.

 

[gsarg]

By saying that those that choose to open carry are cop wanna-be's, does it make those that choose to conceal carry, gangsta thug wanna-be's?

 

[Dave70968]

For someone to open carry in a general setting, like say, a Wal-Mart, I think that person is going to have a borderline autistic syndrome very similar to that of the young man with the loud stereo, or large spoiler on the back of his Honda Civic. You are pretending to be something that you are not.

Or maybe I just didn't feel like bothering with putting on a cover garment in the Oklahoma heat.

I guess that's also a sign of my "borderline autistic syndrome," just like turning the stereo up earlier. It obviously had nothing to do with the fact that it was a fun song to play loud.

Just out of curiosity--since you're handing out diagnoses and all--where did you go to med school?

 

[okiebryan]

I wish to open carry because I don't want to shoot anyone.

Let me explain.. If concealed carry has this magical "element of surprise", then you carry for the time when you get to use your gun. "SURPRISE!" I'd really just rather that those who are up to no good just go find someone else to victimize. My open display of available force speaks very clearly that I have the means and willingness to defend myself.

My take on OC is based on having lived in an OC state. At first, people will be apprehensive. But in time, it gets so that nobody cares...except for the predator on the prowl for fresh meat. I want him to notice, and I want him to care.

 

[tRidiot]

I guess several have missed my point. So I'll expand upon it. I guess I don't really disagree that it should be a citizen's right to open carry. I meant that open carry is not an intelligent way to protect yourself and your family. Uniformed officers are already marked to stand out, and their identification as law enforcement furthers the penalties for confrontation with them, and ups the deterrent level. They should be openly armed.

Regular citizens not in uniform openly presenting a firearm raise more questions than answers. Is this person trained properly? Are they hot-headed? Why are they displaying a weapon? Does he think I just looked at his wife? What if he's on medication?

Who cares? You seem to think everyone who carries a gun should be a crack shot or CLEET certified or something similar. Why would someone carrying openly need to prove themselves any more competent than someone carrying concealed? Just so the sheep aren't offended?

According to your statement above, anyone who open carries isn't acting intelligently... as you obviously would.

For someone to open carry in a general setting, like say, a Wal-Mart, I think that person is going to have a borderline autistic syndrome very similar to that of the young man with the loud stereo, or large spoiler on the back of his Honda Civic. You are pretending to be something that you are not.

Really? So now, they're not only unintelligent, they're borderline autistic... like you really have a grasp what that means. Actually, by your very use of the comparison, I can tell you don't have the first clue what it entails...

The stereo in my truck would probably deafen you, should I choose to crank it while you are in there. I guess that means I'm autistic, too? Obviously, it's due to my lack of intelligence and autistic tendencies that I have leaned towards a loud stereo to enjoy (mostly on the open road, FWIW) and open carry to potentially deter those looking to victimize sheep.

If you guys want to pretend you're action heroes, well, if I see you open carrying, like I mentioned earlier, I'm going to keep my distance. Because trouble is going to follow you, not me.

I'd prefer that you keep your distance regardless... since you obviously have such a poor regard for those who hold a different opinion than you do.

I wish to open carry because I don't want to shoot anyone.

Let me explain.. If concealed carry has this magical "element of surprise", then you carry for the time when you get to use your gun. "SURPRISE!" I'd really just rather that those who are up to no good just go find someone else to victimize. My open display of available force speaks very clearly that I have the means and willingness to defend myself.

Well said.

Once again... everyone predicting so many problems seems to be overlooking the fact that the vast majority of the states in this country have some form of open carry. And the number of problems we see associated with it are not just minimal, but negligible.

But, by all means... don't let the facts change your opinions in any way.

 

[abajaj11]

i guess several have missed my point. So i'll expand upon it. I guess i don't really disagree that it should be a citizen's right to open carry. I meant that open carry is not an intelligent way to protect yourself and your family. Uniformed officers are already marked to stand out, and their identification as law enforcement furthers the penalties for confrontation with them, and ups the deterrent level. They should be openly armed.

Regular citizens not in uniform openly presenting a firearm raise more questions than answers. Is this person trained properly? Are they hot-headed? Why are they displaying a weapon? Does he think i just looked at his wife? What if he's on medication?

I think we will see most people in public shy away from open carry individuals. These people carrying a weapon may incorrectly interpret this as a sign of respect, or unnecessary fear, however the typical attitude will be to treat them similar to the way one would treat a teenager in a car with a super loud radio. Its not something rational, and the potential for argument is present, so just step away from them and try to go the other way.

For someone to open carry in a general setting, like say, a wal-mart, i think that person is going to have a borderline autistic syndrome very similar to that of the young man with the loud stereo, or large spoiler on the back of his honda civic. You are pretending to be something that you are not.

You are definitely not going to be fast drawing on someone in the nick of time to save the day. In most circumstances, if you are worthy of carrying a firearm, your awareness will alert you if someone is about to threaten you (jeff cooper stuff). The situation i mention of 'having more time to consider one's options from concealment' means that if i'm in line at the grocery store, and some guy starts waving a gun at the cashier, i'm going to have the option of turning around with my family, and leaving out the back door. If that route is blocked, then yes, i do actually have a kel tec p3at in my pocket. Or, if i think a clear opportunity is present, i may end the confrontation. It is my option.

See that's why i carry a gun. I am not law enforcement, and i do not want to pretend to be. I carry a gun everyday, everywhere, for the sole purpose of making it back home to my family. And if i were in the lane next to the one being robbed, and suddenly a gunfight erupted between the robber and some plainclothes citizen, i'd be pretty ticked off at both of them. If you guys want to pretend you're action heroes, well, if i see you open carrying, like i mentioned earlier, i'm going to keep my distance. Because trouble is going to follow you, not me.

don't feed this troll.

 

[David2012]

Using his thinking, open carry would be a great idea... if the checkout lines are backed up at Walmart.. I can go stand in the busiest line with my open carry weapon and start talking to myself... maybe twitching every so often... it should open up the line quickly!

If open carry will cause strangers to avoid me.... I don't see that as being a bad thing in some situations. From my experiences, workers in Walmarts & other stores that know i conceal carry say they feel more safe knowing someone they are comfortable with is in the area and armed... given the problems these days. Just today it was reported that a policeman was shot & killed in a Texas Walmart by a drunk.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/06/officer-fatally-shot-at-walmart-in-texas/