HB2522: Open Carry

[OKCHunter]

After watching all the gyrations and incarnations of HB2522 and SB1733, I've just about lost all faith in the legislative process. Why can't these people simply bring a bill before the House or Senate for a vote? It's a wonder that our government can get anything done.

 

[usaffiremanboyd]

Can someone give me some background on this. I've "heard" that if someone possess a OK Conceal Carry Permit, then that will serve as the open carry permit. Or is it a totally different permit that we have to go through the process all over again to get one? Someone also told me that by passing this law, and my concealed gun "shows" through my shirt for example; would be ok. Can someone educate me?

thanks!

 

[MLR]

When contacting your Representatives in OKC about Bills you are concerned about be careful how you ask for their support. Do not give them an easy out by asking if they will vote or have voted to support the Bill in question. This allows them to honestly say that they did indeed vote for the Bill, leaving out that they later allowed the Bill to quietly die or actually vote against it at a later crucial time. Instead ask them if they did or will do everything in their power to ensure the passage of the Bill.
We let to many of them get away with voting one way to get reelected when in fact they willfully allowed the Bill to die.

Michael

 

[vvvvvvv]

I have no problem with, as a first step, requiring instruction to get an "open carry permit". we have to move one small step at a time towards constitutional carry. Don't let the best be the enemy of the good. And no, I do not think that OC with a permit is a step backwards from "no OC at all" either.

A) The bill does not require instruction. It allows an NRA or SDA instructor to issue a certificate at their discretion.

B) How is requiring more hoops a step toward constitutional carry? The previous incarnation of this bill would have been a step in the right direction, but any support of the current version of this bill is supporting allowing a common citizen, in addition to the government, to determine what your firearm rights are and aren't. I consider any supporters of this bill to be enemies of the Second Amendment.

Second, I have no problem with government NOT regulating the price of things, they don't regulate the price of many things, like cars or groceries either: the market sets the price. Free market price for instruction for OC permits will likely be be a LOT lower than a government mandated price.

Government claims it has the power to determine what your rights are and aren't. Do you truly want government to delegate that asserted power to a common citizen who determines at his own discretion that Person A has the "right" to carry openly but Person B doesn't?

 

[hrdware]

Can someone give me some background on this. I've "heard" that if someone possess a OK Conceal Carry Permit, then that will serve as the open carry permit. Or is it a totally different permit that we have to go through the process all over again to get one? Someone also told me that by passing this law, and my concealed gun "shows" through my shirt for example; would be ok. Can someone educate me?

thanks!

First off, welcome to the forum.

As for an explanation, that's where it gets complicated but I'll try and walk you through it.

There are 2 open carry bills in the legislature this session HB2522 and SB1733. They both started out pretty much the same with regards to open carry. Open carry with a concealed weapons permit, so yes, if you printed or had accidental exposure it wouldn't be a big deal any more. Between the two bills HB2522 was the better bill since it provided additional things, adding ammunition to the parking lot exemption, unlicensed open carry on your own private property, changing the notification to police from "first contact" to "first opportunity", reducing the failure to notify fine. And a couple other things. Both bills passed their house of origin.

When HB2522 got to the Senate Public Safety committee, they completely gutted the bill and inserted language that is closer to constitutional carry. In order to open carry under this language you would have to take a NRA or CLEET level safety course and carry around your certificate of completion. SDA licensees would not be grandfathered in. There is now an amendment to this that would allow SDA instructors to do the same thing.

When SB1733 got to the House Public Safety committee, they did a legislative cut and paste and replaced the entire text with the engrossed version of HB2522 that passed out of the house.

Both bills are now waiting for passage in the opposite chamber and if they pass there, they go back to the chamber of origin for approval of the changes.

The reason I say one bill was gutted and the other replaced text is because HB2522 had completely different language inserted into it while SB1733 had additional language, but the basic idea of the bill was retained.

So, you have probably heard things about both bills and they are correct. It is just a matter of time now to see if one or the other gets passed or if the two go to a conference committee to be reconciled and then voted on. There is still a lot of possibilities left before time runs out.

 

[hrdware]

A) The bill does not require instruction. It allows an NRA or SDA instructor to issue a certificate at their discretion.

B) How is requiring more hoops a step toward constitutional carry? The previous incarnation of this bill would have been a step in the right direction, but any support of the current version of this bill is supporting allowing a common citizen, in addition to the government, to determine what your firearm rights are and aren't. I consider any supporters of this bill to be enemies of the Second Amendment.



Government claims it has the power to determine what your rights are and aren't. Do you truly want government to delegate that asserted power to a common citizen who determines at his own discretion that Person A has the "right" to carry openly but Person B doesn't?

Not that I agree with the training aspect from a constitutional carry standpoint, but many states require this type of thing. Take the NRA safety class and get a completion certificate then carry on.

As for a citizen telling you if you can carry or not, this is already how we do things with regards to the concealed carry permit. Take the safety class, if the citizen instructor doesn't like how you handle your firearm, or doesn't like the fact you hit the target on 2 of 5 times, they don't have to pass you. A citizen has just disallowed you to apply for a concealed carry permit.

 

[thegomezclan]

So would my NRA basic pistol certificate allow me to open carry if HB 2522 pass?

 

[Jefpainthorse]

The text of either bill does not mention exactly "who" can instruct other than a cursory mention of "NRA" --nor what the lesson plan should be.

I dont know so I am asking here... Will the OSBI determine the operational specifics?

Personally I can see a "check box" on the next generation SDA card (similar to the firearm type we have now)... an OC endorsment on the face of the card... and a couple of powerpoint slides in the class about basic holster selection and retention strategy.

Then on the other hand...our current SDA doesnt adress any "gun Safety" per se...
Many states allow the NRA personal defense or Basic Handgun class to be the foundation for their training.

I dont like regulation either... but IF YOUR GONNA DO it- it should be meaningful. Michigan's shooting test is 96 rounds... and it's scored. In OK... 50 rounds at 3 and 5 yards total-dont kill the instructor and it's good to go.

 

[vvvvvvv]

As for a citizen telling you if you can carry or not, this is already how we do things with regards to the concealed carry permit. Take the safety class, if the citizen instructor doesn't like how you handle your firearm, or doesn't like the fact you hit the target on 2 of 5 times, they don't have to pass you. A citizen has just disallowed you to apply for a concealed carry permit.

So in your opinion, "because that's how we've done it" makes it right?

You'd make a good legislator, since that's their favorite excuse for running the House of Representatives in a manner directly in violation of the Oklahoma Constitution.

 

[abajaj11]

A) The bill does not require instruction. It allows an NRA or SDA instructor to issue a certificate at their discretion.
.....
I consider any supporters of this bill to be enemies of the Second Amendment.

I think you are taking the position where the BEST (constitutional carry) is becoming the enemy of the GOOD (conditional open carry).
Current bills are better than what we have now (no open carry).
One small step at a time.