HB2522: Open Carry

[vvvvvvv]

I think the anti 2A folks from all over the country will be quick to point out any proposed legislation if it is about OC. regardless of how it is "marketed".
In my opinion we can't "market" legislation, we just have to be honest about what we want and educate people on past statistics: in this case that 41+ states have some kind of open carry, including several with constitutional carry, and there have not been any adverse effects at all. In fact in many cases there have been beneficial effects.

But such a petition wouldn't really be about open carry at all... it would be about removing a contradiction from the state's own constitution and get the state out of the way of the Second Amendment. It would be counter-productive to call such a petition an "open carry" petition.

Anywho... the real problem is that we keep letting the same fascists, statists, and socialists stay in office. Out of 101 House seats, 51 are uncontested. Out of 24 Senate seats, 6 are uncontested and 11 will be decided in a primary.

So don't expect any real net positive progress on the Second Amendment until at least 2015 in Oklahoma, or longer if we keep letting the two-faced scumbags back into the Capitol each cycle.

 

[okiebryan]

But such a petition wouldn't really be about open carry at all... it would be about removing a contradiction from the state's own constitution and get the state out of the way of the Second Amendment. It would be counter-productive to call such a petition an "open carry" petition.

Anywho... the real problem is that we keep letting the same fascists, statists, and socialists stay in office. Out of 101 House seats, 51 are uncontested. Out of 24 Senate seats, 6 are uncontested and 11 will be decided in a primary.

So don't expect any real net positive progress on the Second Amendment until at least 2015 in Oklahoma, or longer if we keep letting the two-faced scumbags back into the Capitol each cycle.

Problem is that the media controls how the argument is portrayed. Unless you had $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to launch TV ads ad nauseum, those who have the argument the news media likes will get all the airtime, and consequently, frame and define the argument. Your ballot initiative to "get oklahoma laws in line with the Oklahoma constitution" turns into "ZOMFG WE ARE ALL GONNA DROWN IN RIVERS OF BLOOD".

 

[oklacowboy]

But such a petition wouldn't really be about open carry at all... it would be about removing a contradiction from the state's own constitution and get the state out of the way of the Second Amendment. It would be counter-productive to call such a petition an "open carry" petition.

Anywho... the real problem is that we keep letting the same fascists, statists, and socialists stay in office. Out of 101 House seats, 51 are uncontested. Out of 24 Senate seats, 6 are uncontested and 11 will be decided in a primary.

So don't expect any real net positive progress on the Second Amendment until at least 2015 in Oklahoma, or longer if we keep letting the two-faced scumbags back into the Capitol each cycle.

I agree with you 100%. But don't you think this year we should take what we can get in any form of open carry? Then once we get this we can work on what it really needs to be which is constitutional carry. No permits, no anything.

 

[vvvvvvv]

But don't you think this year we should take what we can get in any form of open carry? Then once we get this we can work on what it really needs to be which is constitutional carry. No permits, no anything.

When reaching compromises, you must be very careful with how far you compromise. In this case, to "take what we can get" would be to accept a separate permitting process for open carry versus concealed carry where your instructor gets to determine if you can carry openly in addition to being able to carry concealed, or if you can only carry concealed because he happens to agree with the Oklahoma Rifle Association's opposition to open carry (whether independently or because of a gainful relationship).

I would consider simply adding the language "or unconcealed" after every instance of "concealed" in the SDA and any other relevant statutes to be an acceptable open carry compromise for the time being. But requiring a separate subjective permitting process is completely unacceptable to me.

 

[oklacowboy]

When reaching compromises, you must be very careful with how far you compromise. In this case, to "take what we can get" would be to accept a separate permitting process for open carry versus concealed carry where your instructor gets to determine if you can carry openly in addition to being able to carry concealed, or if you can only carry concealed because he happens to agree with the Oklahoma Rifle Association's opposition to open carry (whether independently or because of a gainful relationship).

I would consider simply adding the language "or unconcealed" after every instance of "concealed" in the SDA and any other relevant statutes to be an acceptable open carry compromise for the time being. But requiring a separate subjective permitting process is completely unacceptable to me.

Once again I am in agreeance with you 100% I don't want to have a permit for concealed carry and another one for open carry. This year we need to get something passed so these naysayers can see it's really no big deal. Also, we have to get something passed that our little lady govenor will sign. I think she might sign the version with a concealed carry permit. Or at least we can hope she will.

 

[vvvvvvv]

This year we need to get something passed so these naysayers can see it's really no big deal.

Passing HB2522 solely for that purpose will be a setback in the overall fight. Why? Because the argument against a single-permit system or federal constitutional carry will be "well, you can already get a permit".

Also, we have to get something passed that our little lady govenor will sign. I think she might sign the version with a concealed carry permit. Or at least we can hope she will.

I wouldn't count on it.The reason open carry passed in 2010 was because legislators were insulated by Brad Henry. The reason a bill won't be sent to Mary Fallin is because she still needs to get re-elected. That's why Republicans on the committee changed their votes this go round on language identical to they supported sending to Brad Henry because the language is "dangerous and unacceptable". Nothing open carry related will hit her desk until 2015 or later, and even then I'm willing to bet that she "misspoke" or "reconsidered her position" by then.

Our state government has much more important things to deal with, such as what consenting heterosexual adults do within their own bedrooms.

 

[oklacowboy]

Passing HB2522 solely for that purpose will be a setback in the overall fight. Why? Because the argument against a single-permit system or federal constitutional carry will be "well, you can already get a permit".



I wouldn't count on it.The reason open carry passed in 2010 was because legislators were insulated by Brad Henry. The reason a bill won't be sent to Mary Fallin is because she still needs to get re-elected. That's why Republicans on the committee changed their votes this go round on language identical to they supported sending to Brad Henry because the language is "dangerous and unacceptable". Nothing open carry related will hit her desk until 2015 or later, and even then I'm willing to bet that she "misspoke" or "reconsidered her position" by then.

Our state government has much more important things to deal with, such as what consenting heterosexual adults do within their own bedrooms.

I have to agree with you about everything, but I am still hoping we can get something good to come out of this mess this year. If nothing happens this year what do we do, just try again next year? That hasn't been working very good here lately.

 

[abajaj11]

I have to agree with you about everything, but I am still hoping we can get something good to come out of this mess this year. If nothing happens this year what do we do, just try again next year? That hasn't been working very good here lately.

I think we need to keep the pressure up... i don't think they would have strung us along to this length if they were planning to kill it anyway...this will infuriate us even more than if they had not built it up. The common wisdom is that something will pass this year. I say we keep the pressure up and get something passed. Conditional OC is better than no OC and a step in the right direction.
we'll worry about constitutional carry later...one small step at a time.

Think how far we have come since the days when there was no concealed carry anywhere and 2A rights were all but dead. Bill Clinton's attack on 2A in many ways rejuvenated pro 2A folks and we have made quite a lot of progress. So while we can call our politicians all sorts of names, I don't think we are going to get folks that are much better than what we have currently...you work with what you have, not what you WISH you had. Our legislature is about as conservative as it has been, thanks in part to Mr Obama being elected...so let's get things passed!

 

[vvvvvvv]

If nothing happens this year what do we do, just try again next year? That hasn't been working very good here lately.

Hold the lying scumbags accountable. There are still 50 seats that are being contested in the House and 9 seats in the Senate (3 by "Independents"). While that doesn't fix the matter entirely, it is a chance to tip the scales in our favor at least a little bit, or at least send a message.

 

[oklacowboy]

Hold the lying scumbags accountable.

Now that makes sense. I like it.

How do we hold them accountable? Them f---ed up politicians do whatever they want, when they want and how they want and seems that they don't have to answer to anyone. Some of them can literally get away with murder.