RANT! (question #744)

[Baron Driver]

I don't know which ones bothers me more: that, or the people who spend $100K on law school, choose to go serve as a public defender for DHS or something like that, then complain that they can't pay their student loans and they either the loans need to be forgiven or I need to pay the loans for them.

Well, this is quite a conundrum. If those positions paid more than they do, then it wouldn't be necessary for the government to offer incentives such as student loan forgiveness in order to attrack qualified applicants. If they didn't offer such incentives, many people could not afford to take the positions, and the law of supply and demand would require that the government offer more money. Eitherway, it's probably going to cost the taxpayer the same.

Do you object to the military repaying student loans?

/sorry for the thread-jacking. If I was still an Okie, I'd vote no.

 

[sumoj275]

When I heard that Brad Henry was speaking against 744 that right there told me that it isn't good for anyone. Since he has been in office he has increased spending in education, one of the mandatory raises he gave teachers was unfunded, requiring the AG's office to step in and tell the school districts to do it or be in violation of the law.

Fact is our teachers are something like 47~48th in the nation in pay... so are our state employee's yet our legislators are approximately 6th in the nation.... something seems a little lop sided to me.

I was also told that the State of Oklahoma has as many superintendents as the State of Texas…. I don’t believe there is a superintendent making less then 80k a year and I believe I was told they all make at least 100k. example Hartshorne and Haleyville Oklahoma touch and their high schools are blocks apart yet each one has a full staff running each school district. Same with Kiowa and Pittsburg, Oklahoma…. Consolidation wouldn’t be a bad thing….. also if the schools have money for sports and other extra curricular activities then they have plenty of money to spend on education…. At least that’s my take on it….

744 will bankrupt the State of Oklahoma...

Some programs raise their own money. A lot of the suck on education comes from students of illegal parents who don't know what it is to pay into the system.

 

[dennishoddy]

I started reading the first page.
I don't agree with robbing peter to pay paul.
BUT! Our kids are being dumbed down so bad by the current way the schools are being ran. Touchy feely BS is not how it happens in the real world.
Back in the day, we had kids in my class that committed suicide, and some killed in accidents, and it was sad to see an empty chair the next day, but we still went to class.
Now we have to have idiots that can't make it in the real world with a real job come in to "council" these kids???
Gimme a break.

they can kill a hundred people a day in their stupid video games. They are numb to death.

Reading Writing and Arithmetic is what the schools system need to get back to.
Teach these kids how to manage a check book, get a loan that is not upside down from the start, invest in the market, and foremost ..........

LEARN TO READ

If a kid can't read, they can't do any of the life skills above.....Read, Read, Read.

When somebody gets back to "education" of our children, I'll back it with my check book.
So far, neither side has a leg to stand on.....

If I've made you mad posting this KMA!!

 

[sumoj275]

The schools are failing our kids because there is no discipline and the curriculum is too dull to keep the kids interested. Money won't fix the root cause of a poorly designed and even more poorly executed educational system.

Maybe, but parental involvement and no recourse for mis-behavin/performing students doesn't help. Why is it never little Johnny's fault?

 

[sumoj275]

Where is al the money from the casinos going? I thought the education system was supposed to get a cut of this. Maybe they should up the cut, as the casinos seem to be making plenty to keep building more and more of them. Just my penny of a thought.

How much is the casino's loosing out on with the economy being in the bucket? Why not suspend their amount of earnings or close them down? We all need to deal with it right???

 

[sumoj275]

That's Indian money. They are sovereign nations in and of themselves and therefore basically untouchable.

So, the tribes shoul pay to educate the Native American children..........why not, the rest of us are paying to educate illegal immigrant's children.

 

[sumoj275]

Not true. Sure some of it goes towards indian interests, but I know the Cherokee Nation donates tons of money to schools and other things that aren't to benefit indians only. For example, the little town of ochelata got new paved roads and bridges with Cherokee money. The Caney Valley School system for Ramona, Ochelata, and Vera has new computers as well as other things because of Cherokee money.

Consolidate for the win.

 

[sumoj275]

Having been a school board member in my past, I am all for good quality education. Unfortunately, over the years we have seen a decline in the quality in Oklahoma. That decline HAS NOT COME as a result of low funding.

Regardless of what some want to say, throwing money at a problem doesn't solve the problem. There are numerous examples of that in various school districts around the country. (Washington D.C. comes to mind right off the bat.)

We as citizens need to look at things carefully rather than judge by "sound bites" designed to shift the blame. Someone posted earlier that administrative salaries are a lot less than many would believe. Before believing that those salaries are the "big problem", check to see what they are making for what they do.

As for teachers, try firing one, regardless of how bad a teacher they are, after they have obtained tenure. And, perhaps while looking at things carefully, we compare the percentage paid to teachers in relationship to the individual school budget, not on what other states are doing. I think most of us would agree that in a business, the largest expense can be salaries of employees.

There is NOTHING about state question 744 that is logical or even promising. This is just an attempt to get more money for an industry that is failing. If they really want to help education, perhaps the OEA should work towards getting rid of the dead wood within their own ranks.

While I am on this rant, let me add that we should also get the Feds to disband the federal Department of Education and get the state to take a real hard look at the state's department of education to see that what is being done to educate children in Oklahoma is quality actions. And, be careful what is done to make the curriculum "interesting". Flocabulary, as has been introduced into the OKC school district, is not quality.

I was listening to the radio today and heard the story of a little girl, one of only two in her class that passed a test, who was forced to take the test over and over. The teacher was making EVERYONE retake the test until the poor performers could finally pass. The teacher didn't want the poor performers to "feel bad" so EVERYONE had to retake the test.

Yeah, I know. That is anecdotal, but it is an example of terrible teaching.

Sorry for the rant.

ABSOLUTELY NO ON 744

In the real world, what percentage of the students who failed were from an ESL home or family? What grade level are we talking about?

 

[vvvvvvv]

Trimming the budget on OSA or in public education? Anyway, amny districts did not get their raises this year, lost planning time, more work at home and weekends, and an increased class size due to the state suspending laws. Not sure but this all amounts to the same as people in the non-public education arena taking a pay decrease, more work, etc.

Source please. Your administration doesn't count. I've already had a Tulsa area teacher say that, and when I showed her that the laws don't say what people think they say, she agreed.

I've looked for nearly a week. All I have found are preexisting provisions.

Such as class sizes are really limited to 32-36 students per class depending on scheduling, not the 20 that they tell you.

70 O.S. § 18-113.1. Limitations of Class Size
70 O.S. § 18-113.2. Limitations of Class Size - Penalties for Violations
70 O.S. § 18-113.3. Determination of Class Size - Self-contained Special Education Classes
70 O.S. § 18-113.4. Penalties for Exceeding Class Size Limitations
70 O.S. § 18-113.5. Exemption

As for not getting raises, as long as it meets the minimums in the following statute, it is acceptable.

70 O.S. § 18-114.12. Public School Teachers - Minimum Salary and Benefits - 2005-2009

Additionally, teachers cannot have their pay reduced.

70 O.S. § 18-114.9. Reduction in Salary

School boards, however, can adopt their own salary schedule and increments as long as they are above the minimums.

70 O.S. § 18-114.1. Salary Schedule and Increments in Excess of Minimums




Anything else?

 

[Bruno2]

While I am on this rant, let me add that we should also get the Feds to disband the federal Department of Education

What are they going to do with all those SBS's they just bought? The DOE has a tactical entry team for what its worth.