Got detained by stillwater pd today for brandishing

[bcox]

He DID NOT display a weapon, not that displaying a weapon is in ANY way illegal! It is perfectly legal to have an unloaded weapon in plain sight in or on a vehicle.

Granted, the weapon was loaded, but the cop had no way to know that without stopping him, so, what was the probable cause to stop him in the first place??

Wonder if the cop stops everyone with a rifle in the back window of a pick-up just in case it is loaded?

He was carrying legally, then his concealed weapon was accidentally exposed. He DID NOT "brandish" or "display" a weapon.







If I was the OP, I believe I'd be having a visit with the DA ASAP and discuss probable cause for stopping me in the first place.

If the weapon didn't stay concealed (Adj. 1. concealed - not accessible to view; "concealed (or hidden) damage"; "in stormy weather the stars are out of sight"
hidden, out of sight
invisible, unseeable )

Then he was displaying a weapon, even if it was unintentional, it was still shown which is against ccw from the sda book

And what you are referring to about being in the open only pertains to unloaded weapons, not a weapon in a holster on your person

 

[SMS]

Buzzgun, if it was visible it was 'displayed'. The section on open carry in a vehicle certainly does not apply to one being worn on the body. Dare you to unload your pistol and proceed to open carry around town.

The cop had every reason to stop someone who was visibly wearing a pistol in public....since it is illegal in the state of Oklahoma with certain exceptions. Exceptions that the officer can not be sure apply to said individual until he/she executes a stop.

Love how folks are putting all the burden on the LEOs to act above reproach, but none on the OP who failed to live up to his/her responsibility under the SDA.

 

[deja]

Thanks for the reply, BadgeBunny. You're right, I'm fairly a newcomer here, and I'm sure it gets more vicious, so I guess I'm just getting my feet wet.

Also, I checked out the SDA again, and I don't think that (apart from the knife) the OP broke the law. The SDA states:

TITLE 21 § 1290.7
Construing authority of license
CONSTRUING AUTHORITY OF LICENSE
The authority to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to a valid handgun license as authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section of this act, shall not be construed to authorize any person to:
1. Carry or possess any weapon other than an authorized pistol as defined by the provisions of Section 2 of this act;
2. Carry or possess any pistol in any manner or in any place otherwise prohibited by law;
3. Carry or possess any prohibited ammunition or any illegal, imitation or homemade pistol;
4. Carry or possess any pistol when the person is prohibited by state or federal law from carrying or possessing any firearm; or
5. Point, discharge, intentionally display the pistol, or use the pistol in any manner not otherwise authorized by law.

It doesn't sound like it was intentional, or that the cop had reason to believe he was intentionally flashing his gun. The law seems to state it's kosher if it wasn't on purpose.

Love how folks are putting all the burden on the LEOs to act above reproach, but none on the OP who failed to live up to his/her responsibility under the SDA.

I think multiple people have pointed out that the OP did a poor job of executing his responsibility of concealing the firearm. And LEOs (like anyone else) SHOULD be expected to do their job correctly. It's their job. I would be subject to criticism if I did my job poorly.

 

[SMS]

It doesn't sound like it was intentional, or that the cop had reason to believe he was intentionally flashing his gun. The law seems to state it's kosher if it wasn't on purpose.

I think multiple people have pointed out that the OP did a poor job of executing his responsibility of concealing the firearm. And LEOs (like anyone else) SHOULD be expected to do their job correctly. It's their job. I would be subject to criticism if I did my job poorly.

The law does not say it is 'kosher' to display, intentionally or otherwise, a loaded weapon on the body, in public. It is a concealed weapons license...

"The authority to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to a valid handgun license as authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section of this act, shall not be construed to authorize any person to:

2. Carry or possess any pistol in any manner or in any place otherwise prohibited by law"

You are not authorized to carry a pistol, on your person, in the open in the state of Oklahoma, with certain exceptions. Period, full stop.

So, put in that context. The officers witnessed the open carry of a firearm on an individuals body near a school and executed a stop on a known armed individual. Please explain how they did something wrong or didn't do their job 'correctly'.

 

[BadgeBunny]

Thanks for the reply, BadgeBunny. You're right, I'm fairly a newcomer here, and I'm sure it gets more vicious, so I guess I'm just getting my feet wet.

Also, I checked out the SDA again, and I don't think that (apart from the knife) the OP broke the law. The SDA states:


It doesn't sound like it was intentional, or that the cop had reason to believe he was intentionally flashing his gun. The law seems to state it's kosher if it wasn't on purpose.

I think part of the problem also is that everyone has tunnel vision and is assuming the officer was thinking only in terms of the SDA laws ... Like I said, there is always more to the story.

And I wasn't just talking about how us old-timers here tend to pick a post apart sometimes. I was also talking about relative newcomers who ALWAYS seem to have trouble with Johnny Law and ALWAYS seem to be an innocent victim in every single encounter with the Po-Po. (Again, I AM NOT referring to the OP here.)

I worked as a paralegal for more than 20 years and have been married to a State Trooper (who will hit his 20 years, thankyouverymuch!!, in December) for 10 years.

The police are not always right ... there are some bad ones out there and no one wants to see them get their just reward more than I do ... but if every single person who was involved in, or saw what was going on during that stop, came here and told their side of the story, believe me you wouldn't know what to think. We had a saying at the law office ...

50 witnesses, 50 different stories, all of them the truth.

Bottom line here is, for me anyway, he was carrying concealed, he didn't conceal properly and it created a problem for him. I try really, really hard to be invisible to the police (and I am married to one) -- that should be lesson enough for others ...

 

[deja]

The law does not say it is 'kosher' to display, intentionally or otherwise, a loaded weapon on the body, in public. It is a concealed weapons license...

"The authority to carry a concealed handgun pursuant to a valid handgun license as authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section of this act, shall not be construed to authorize any person to:

2. Carry or possess any pistol in any manner or in any place otherwise prohibited by law"

You are not authorized to carry a pistol, on your person, in the open in the state of Oklahoma, with certain exceptions. Period, full stop.

So, put in that context. The officers witnessed the open carry of a firearm on an individuals body near a school and executed a stop on a known armed individual. Please explain how they did something wrong or didn't do their job 'correctly'.

I wasn't saying that the officer did something wrong. I was responding to the poster criticizing people for criticizing the cop. If someone is doing their job poorly, it's certainly acceptable to say so. I would wholeheartedly agree that there is probable cause for a stop if you see a gun, and I didn't say otherwise. The cop doesn't know for sure, even if he checks records all the way through, that the guy he's seeing has a permit.

The law looks to say that it is illegal to intentionally display it. It is illegal to carry a weapon at all in the state of Oklahoma, with certain exceptions: one of them being a license to carry, but that does not authorize you to intentionally display a firearm.

 

[SMS]

The law looks to say that it is illegal to intentionally display it. It is illegal to carry a weapon at all in the state of Oklahoma, with certain exceptions: one of them being a license to carry, but that does not authorize you to intentionally display a firearm.

The section of the law you are referring to speaks to things that are not specifically authorized by the authority of license. That doesn't mean that everything else not listed in that section is good-to-go.

Other activity is regulated by other parts of the law....as in open carry of a loaded firearm. Those sections do not differentiate between intentional display and accidental display.

 

[taymoor]

I was definitely not intentionally displaying the gun. To hint that I was showing it on purpose is ridiculous. And the officer told me after I was uncuffed that he knew I had a license. Horses mouth.

 

[Shadowrider]

This is yet another case of poorly written law.

I'm of the opinion that the law was supposed to mean "brandishing" as displaying in an intentional manner in an attempt to intimidate. But because of the poor language we have this argument going on because it can be interpreted literally and viewed as a violation. I don't think that's what the authors intended but it is what it is. Fortunately most LEOs have a brain and let incidental displays slide which they should. This sounds like it was incidental but could have been prevented. Hopefully the OSBI will see it the same way.

 

[alank2]

Hi,

I think police officers are awesome, and I respect them a great deal for what they do. With that said, they are humans and make mistakes too.

I'm not racking on you OP, but you know your shirt is going to blow up on a cycle. If we had the open carry law, then no biggie, but sadly we don't. Better effort needs to be made to conceal properly.

I may have missed it, but did the officer KNOW you were a CCW holder before hand?

I wasn't there and I didn't see how it went down, but if I were taken down with force before being given an opportunity to comply with officer instructions, I would be very upset. I see no reason for that unless the person is unwilling to comply or demonstrates he is a danger to others. This goes for whether the officer knew he had a CCW or not. I would seriously consider legal action if this happened to me. Force needs to have a good reason and I don't consider someone having a holstered gun in a state with CCW a good reason.

I wouldn't have a problem with the officer having his gun drawn in the situation although I think if the officer knew the person had a CCW that a gun drawn on a CCW holder who has a holstered weapon is a bit much unless he had a reason. Again, each situation would be different. If the officer had his gun drawn while my family was near me and my gun has been holstered the entire time, I would be very upset.

This takes me to my other comment - I am so tired of hearing about "man with a gun" or "gun man" stories in the news and the like. There is a big difference between an "active shooter" and a someone legally carrying a gun that is holstered and properly concealed.

Thanks,

Alan